Warlord and Tactical Shift

[JGulick]

Bursts aren't Ranged attacks; they're Close or Area attacks. A power that goes off in the middle of the party and hits everyone for damage will be a Close or Area power; the Warlord's ally has thus not been hit by a Melee or Ranged attack, and Tactical Shift cannot trigger.

-Hyp.

You are entirely correct... I withdraw the amplified objection; this ruling would only rarely amplify this power to multi-target protection.

However, this changing (via purposeful ignoring) of the triggering rules for OAs and OA-like Interrupts such as Combat Challenge (which is really what is being proposed here... the critical matter of the question has little to do with Tactical Shift and everything to do with OAs and the like) does allow similar response on Area powers. You could wait until the to-hit rolls are done to decide if that attack is worth responding to. An OA you almost always take when offered, but OA-like Interrupts that trigger on attacks often involve a choice, and by the rules that choice is made at the time the attack is announced, before you know if or how many it is going to actually hit.

 

[Nail]

An OA you almost always take when offered, but OA-like Interrupts that trigger on attacks often involve a choice, and by the rules that choice is made at the time the attack is announced, before you know if or how many it is going to actually hit.

??

Not really.

The Interrupt will happen whenever the Interrupt says it will happen. As has been shown in this thread, an Interrupt can occur after the attack has been declared, after the hit has been determined, but before the entire attack is resolved.

It's just not true that "by the rules that choice is made at the time the attack is announced", at least in this case.

 

[JGulick]

??

Not really.

The Interrupt will happen whenever the Interrupt says it will happen. As has been shown in this thread, an Interrupt can occur after the attack has been declared, after the hit has been determined, but before the entire attack is resolved.

It's just not true that "by the rules that choice is made at the time the attack is announced", at least in this case.

Several people have stated this, but that doesn't make it true. The rules are not silent on this matter, nor is this a case of a bullet list that may or may not have been intended to indicate order. Here, there is a numbered, ordered list of steps that must be ignored for the question to arise.

This Interrupt says it happens when an ally is hit, whereas OAs say they happen when an Attack is made. Any and all OAs provoked by the attack happened before the Hit was determined, after either step 1 or 2 rather than after step 4, using the order of steps of Making an Attack on PHB269.

Interestingly, this seems to answer a question I recall going around earlier, if OAs or CC-provided attacks come first. OAs are provoked in step 1 (when a Ranged attack is selected), while CC triggers in step 2 (when a target other than the Fighter is selected). Thus, in the case of a ranged attack being the provoking action, the OA(s) come before the CC.

 

[Nail]

Several people have stated this, but that doesn't make it true. The rules are not silent on this matter, nor is this a case of a bullet list that may or may not have been intended to indicate order. Here, there is a numbered, ordered list of steps that must be ignored for the question to arise.

????

Who's ignoring the numbered list? I pointed it out above. Are you disagreeing with me or not???

This Interrupt says it happens when an ally is hit,

Yep. I already said that.

whereas OAs say they happen when an Attack is made.

Essentially correct.

"Opportunity attacks are triggered ... by an adjacent enemy making a ranged attack or an area attack."

"Making an Attack" is a series of steps, laid out on p. 269.

Since opportunity attacks are triggered by "making an attack", and the first step of "making an attack" is to choose the attack you'll use, it follows that the triggered interrupt occurs once the adjacent foe chooses his attack type.

Any and all OAs provoked by the attack happened before the Hit was determined, after either step 1 or 2 rather than after step 4, using the order of steps of Making an Attack on PHB269.

Yep. That's exactly correct.

So if you've completed steps #1 (chose attack type), #2 (choose targets), and #3 (make attack roll).....and then someone shifts adjacent to you, you do not provoke an OA.

BTW....you are quoting me, apparently disagreeing with me, and then go on to confirm what I've said. Are you using the reply button correctly?

 

[JGulick]

????
BTW....you are quoting me, apparently disagreeing with me, and then go on to confirm what I've said. Are you using the reply button correctly?

Sorry, I must've made a mistake in reading your post, which was a reply to mine, seemingly objecting to it, which you now say (and I can now see) was essentially agreeing with it, just quibbling about my using the words "attack is announced". By those words, I meant phases 1 and 2 of the list (selecting the attack, selecting the targets), which are two two steps which can trigger OAs (1) and CC-based interrupts (2). And both of which, we clearly agree, come before determining if the attack is or is not a hit (4), which is the trigger for the power the OP asked about.

My mistake again, certainly, as it was my words that were unclear.

 

[Nail]

... we clearly agree,....

Ah! Excellent.