Warlord for Dummies

[Dr_Sage]

Good evening!

Some time ago I asked for tips on 2 new chars I was building: a rogue and a warlord.

I am still lost with the warlord. When I first read the books I was inclidned to build a simple Inspiring or Resourceful Warlord (roleplay reasons only), but many people suggested the Tactical Warlord, specially eladrin with spears.

I would love to see more suggestions/explanations about this class, considering heroic tier for now, as the game will probably be around level 6.

My first ideas were around Resourceful Warlord (Human) mainly becuse of Hector from Troy. I think he has a lot of str, but charisma and inteligente seems to be balanced as well.

Again some people suggested that I should focus only one stat in addition of str, even for a Resourceful Warlord. I underestand Lead the Attack is only good as your int bonus, but its true for all builds?

Ideas, suggestions, builds? I will welcome any suggestion as I have much to learn here.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You're getting some fairly extreme advice. The high-INT warlord does work - I'm playing one now - but you do give up quite a bit for it's outrageous attack bonuses. You end up skimping on STR, and thus your attack rolls, and on tertiary stats that help you qualify for weapon feats, for instance.

A resourceful warlord works quite well advancing INT and CHA evenly - though, again, you may end up missing out on some good weapon feats - and gives you good all-round defenses, too, since you don't have a single worst non-AC defense, the way you would if you concentrated on only one secondary stat.

The resourceful build seems like it'd be good all-round, too. You typically help out your allies whatever they do with thier Action points, are ideal for 'alpha strike' or 'nova' combos, since you boost damage if they hit, and console them with some temp hps if they miss - both are valuable when action-pointing early, unlike the Inspiring warlord's healing.


You do have to have a good STR, and you do have to boost it every chance you get - just like anyone else's primary stat. Don't let tricks like falling back on Commander's Striker fool you, there will be some powers that you'll really want to hit with.

 

[jontherev]

Some basic rules:
1. Always bump strength no matter what. Most of your powers are not about damage, but rather to boost your allies (indirect damage). That means that you need to hit to make use of those effects. I started with a 16 strength on my TacLord because I wanted 4 good stats (Charisma to use Intimidate and Diplomacy, Con to stay alive). An 18's great, but I stand by my choice. Warlords are worse than most other classes I think about needing high stats in a lot of abilities, so I disagree with the advice to focus on two stats (I presume that to mean starting with 18's in your main stats). I also suggest boosting either Intelligence or Charisma (depending on your presence) every level you can as well. Dex and Wis are your dump stats (10 and 8 go here, almost no exceptions). Gimping Con makes you vulerable (you go through your surges quickly because enemies don't like you boosting AND healing your allies), and gimping charisma means you aren't that great at being a leader in the skill department, not to mention it's a key ability that gives bonuses to certain powers. If you pick a presence and only powers that key off of Charisma, you might be able to pull off gimping Int and taking Dex...for this you are most likely trying to wield a heavy blade in order to qualify for a feat.

2. Use a +3 proficiency weapon to help you hit. My favorite is the great spear, which helps out your Commander's Strike. You can still flank to get the hit bonus when you need it. Reach makes you quite effective while standing behind a defender. On the other hand (literally), you might want to use a shield. So, if you aren't keen on using a reach weapon, stick with a one-handed weapon (as long as it's +3 prof.) and use a shield to boost that AC, as enemies really hate you. Using a 2-handed melee weapon without reach is a total utter waste on a warlord.

3. You must take the weapon expertise feat. Did I mention how important it is to hit? Everytime I miss with Lead the Attack, my agonizing shriek can be heard in a 2 mile radius.

4. Don't worry about taking feats that allow you to do more direct damage, like weapon focus. Leave those to the strikers and defenders. An exception might be hammer's rhythym, but it has steep prerequisites as well. If you're stuck on using a hammer, you probably want to build towards getting this feat in paragon level.

5. TacLords take the feat Tactical Assault probably by level 2 or 4.

As far as race goes, you have plenty of options, so think about what you'd like to roleplay the most and run with it, but ability bonuses in your non-dump stats are key. Don't pick a race that gives bonuses to wisdom and dex. Dragonborn are great taclords, but humans are too. The dragon breath is awesome because it's a minor action for one, and an ok minion killer for two...makes a great first round charge combo. Unfortunately for you, you've gimped dex, so you tend to not go first in the round. You MUST take the Hurl Breath feat if you are Dragonborn..don't bother increasing the damage of your breath or extending the close blast to 5...HURLING is so much better. If you want to really play up your Intimidate skill and try to force foes to surrender, you need to start from Impiltur (Forgotten Realms only) and take the feat New Sarshel Enforcer.

I'm a bit biased towards the dragonborn taclord, just because that's all I've played, so that's why I have so much specific advice on that....but like I said, plenty of other races work just as good. I tend to not like bravura because the warlord is already asking for punishment...using powers that grant free attacks against you or bonuses to hit are more likely to make you a party drain on healing. Heck, I wind up using my healing on myself most of the time as it is as a Taclord....but that's just my personal idea of what's good for a warlord. There's plenty of viable builds for bravura I'm sure. I think resourceful and inspiring are also really good builds. It's a matter of personal taste, but I suggest you look at all of the paragon paths and see if anything really catches your eye...because some of them require a particular kind of warlord presence. Warlords are not the easiest class to run...be prepared to measure the value of your character to the rest of the party by how much more damage your allies deal or how much less they take....not by how much damage you yourself deal.

Hope this helps...

 

[Duelpersonality]

First off--play what you like! A tactical warlord can be very good, but an inspiring (or cha heavy resourceful) warlord is a good option as well, especially as a primary healer for a group. The first game I ran in 4e included an inspiring warlord and he was quite good at passing around the bonuses.

I do believe that reach is a very important ability for a warlord, depending on the rest of the party. If you have at least two other melee combatants (preferably a defender or two), the ability to stand behind them and grant bonuses to their attacks while being out of the way of most enemies attacks is a very good tactical option.

 

[keterys]

I've had a blast with my dragonborn inspiring warlord from 1st to 12th so far... I focus on powers that aid my party in outputting damage. The AP effect is pretty weak, and I wish I could have the resourceful's instead, but I like the powers* for inspiring and being Charisma based instead of Int based.

* Hammer and Anvil, Inspired Belligerence, Warlord's Strike, War of Attrition, Shake It Off, Instant Planning...

 

[Klaus]

Hector was more of an Inspiring warlord, with Odysseus being the Resourceful one and a fair number of Greeks and Trojans being Bravura.

Some suggestions:
- Use a reach weapon. Most of your powers are "Melee Weapon", so being able to reach more of the battlefield makes you more effective.
- Alternatively, you could go javelin+shield+Resourceful. Getting a +1 Lightning Javelin that returns to your hand when thrown makes you Zeus' little brother.
- As said above, +3 weapon is a must.

And if you like playing an inspiring battle leader, you could play a Valorous Bard, which is more of a warlord than the warlord. I statted up Aragorn as a half-elf Valorous Bard.

 

[Dan'L]

Some basic rules:
1. Always bump strength no matter what. Most of your powers are not about damage, but rather to boost your allies (indirect damage). That means that you need to hit to make use of those effects.
...
Did I mention how important it is to hit? Everytime I miss with Lead the Attack, my agonizing shriek can be heard in a 2 mile radius.

Amen to that! Forget that idea that Lead the Attack is only as good as your Int bonus, because if you miss then the whole thing is a moot +1 no matter what Int you have.

I think this is why I've found Fearless Rescue to be my best Daily Power choice for my Resourceful Warlord. My ally gets the healing regardless of whether I hit or not, if I hit it's just a bonus.

I also second the notion that getting a handle on Warlords can be a tricky thing. I think more than most classes, the Warlord's powers' usefulness relies heavily on situational conditions. This means that you will have to pay close attention to your & your group's tactics in order to get the best functionality out of your character in combat.

You'd do well to think on your own play style, and choose a build which comes closest to how you already look at running in combat. Also, you will have to consider more than with other classes what classes and builds make up the rest of your party, as well as the typical combat styles of the other players, to determine how you can best augment what they do. If not, you run the risk of ending up with a bunch of cool effects and buffs that do little or nothing effective.

Outside of combat considerations, really, just go for a character concept that excites you, give it the appropriate skinning, and roleplay the heck out of it

-Dan'L

Barring that,

-Dan'L

 

[Dr_Sage]

Fellows thank you for all the input so far, specially jontherev for his deep analysis.

Maybe I will for human resoursefull, not shure about weapons and gear tho. I aways play humans, but this will be a 2-shot game so maybe I should try something unusual....not shure.

The most natural reference I have for Hector light shield + spear/longsword or greatspear. With some inteligence and light armor? Scale mail maybe?

 

[The_Gneech]

Here's a resourceful warlord build that might be helpful. I play him in a friend's game:

What Was I Saying...? - 4E's a Jolly Good Fellow

The one thing I'd suggest (and which I did after making that LJ post) was to swap out the spear for a longspear, and only use the sword + shield combo when against tougher opponents. The reach of the longspear makes "Opening Shove" a lot more useful.

-The Gneech

 

[Tallifer]

This also depends on your party's make-up.

In our party there is a controlling wizard all about immobilization and occasionally shutting down solos; a close-burst fighter; and a battlefield archer.

The fighter is tough enough to need only a spot of healing and the others usually stay out of harm's way, especially with the fighter's mark. Therefore, ordinary warlord healing is sufficient.

However, the wizard and the archer need a tactical warlord's boosts to ensure control of the field and slaughtering the foes: wizards have no proficiency bonuses on their attacks. (The fighter does his job even if he misses.)

With two ranged attackers, our warlord has to stand by the fighter. So he uses a shield and bastard sword. He is a Earth Genasi which has perfect natural abilities and a reliable encounter power which makes foes fall prone.

He specializes in tactical exploits and his paragon path is Battle Captain. When he spends an action point our human wizard can only miss soldiers or elites on a one or a two. (His own paragon path is Spellstorm Mage to take advantage of the action-point-explosion effect.)