D&D 5E Was Champion Fighter designed to be on par with Battlemaster?

[Dkamanus]

Comparatively, both are good, thanks to the randomness of the dice roll. AC, Advantage, Disadvantage, etc.

In longer, tougher fights though, I'd say champion deals more damage more conscistently, mainly because the don't spend superiority dices dealing damage. Champions are mainly damage focused. Battlemaster grant bonuses to the damage they do. In quicker fights, battlemaster. Longer ones, champion.

 

[Flamestrike]

If he's worried, just nudge him towards a half orc with an axe.

Each 19 on a crit gains him +2d12 damage. He only needs [2 x 19s] between short rests to pull out ahead.

 

[kalil]

Well, for what it is worth 3rd level champion multiclasses really well with barbarian, especially for half-orcs as mentioned above.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Do crits multiply superiority dice? That might adjust the math a little since the BM focused only on damage can always decide to spend their dice only when they crit.

 

[rczarnec]

Yes, the superiority die would be doubled on a crit. That does give the battlemaster the option to pile on damage when they crit.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Like so many other things in 5e, it depends on your playstyle. If you have more frequent short rests, then the classes with abilities that recharge on a short rest will be at an advantage.

I think they are pretty on par with how the game is designed. Not everything is combat either. If the champion is a bit lacking in combat, it's probably because they have other abilities that help out of combat that the BM doesn't get. Which again comes down to playstyle. Do you do nothing but combat? or do you do the 3 pillars pretty equally?

 

[smbakeresq]

I think they are comparable, it just depends on how you play them. A champion needs to maximize his attacks to get more chances of crits going off, a BM tries to make each individual attack better. It depends on your DM also, if you are going many encounters between rests, then Champion is better, if you short rest every time, than BM. Champion also requires better use of rules and feats and tactics.

For example using an attack to shove with your Shield to prone them, then the rest of your attacks getting advantage is great for the Champion to get those increased crits, as is using the Shield master feat to do the same as a bonus action. These are things a Champion can try every single round for many encounters, some of them will work. The mobile feat helps some also, you can use 1 attack to get away from someone then go attack a creature you would get advantage on. A Champion needs to really search for advantage. A BM will run out of dice on a crawl or long battle.

Remarkable athlete is pretty good, remember it applies to initiative.

The BM is something that you can just sit there and swing away and the benefits are the same. The Champion relies on the player to maximize it, but it is also simpler for a newer player.

I wish the BM was more like a Warlord, the Commanders strike costs too much IMO to be worth it most times, and the rallying cry really doesn't do a lot for its cost.

 

[UnadvisedGoose445]

Playing with a Champion now from 3 to 10. It's a fairly involved, well-optimized group. He more than keeps up, and is as impressive as any other member of the party. The other Fighter is a Gunslinger, not a Battlemaster, but still. I don't see anything even remotely lacking in the Champion, even pit against our Paladin.

 

[Tony Vargas]

2. Even of those that do agree that Champion is weaker, there is no consensus that this is exactly a problem, citing design intent that Champion was designed to be simple, not competitive.

Pretty close. D&D isn't golf, and you don't need to be on par by the numbers. The DM provides the handicap, if one is really needed, without changing rules or re-writing classes, simply in the PC (and even player) strengths he emphasizes in the course of the campaign...

For the sake of argument, I'll assume that Champion does indeed do less damage over the course of an adventuring day.

Good luck with that.

even if this first player ends up with a no-contest everybody-agrees "worst" class, I'd still be 90% sure he could optimize and end up doing more damage than either of the other two players.

That'd seem to correct the hypothetical problem, naturally. IMX, BTW, it works. I played a Fighter-MC build in a campaign for the full run of 3e and only fell a bit behind the less-optimization-oriented players' casters at the very end (and we all know one unverifiable personal anecdote is proof!).

Seriously, sounds like you have nothing to worry about, and no need to mod the Champion.

 

[fjw70]

As someone playing a champion right now the thrill of the dice is definitely a big attraction for me. Knowing that any roll of the dice can result in a big damage spike can be very thrilling.