D&D 5E Was I in the wrong?

[seebs]

YMMV a great deal. I have severe ADHD, and basically, if you want me to be alert to what's happening in the game, you want me to be playing a video game at the same time. Not a complicated one, but something restful that keeps my fidgeting focused on that so the conscious-thinking part of me is tracking the game.

 

[andargor]

Do 75% of your players lack pencils and sheets of paper? Write out a character sheet. PHBs at the table for references.

There is no reason at all anyone need devices at the table to reference anything. What you do/how you keep records away from the table is totally up to you. But no electronic device needs to be at a table...and "it's how I keep track of my character" is certainly not a legitimate justification when people have been (amazingly, somehow) playing the game without computer assistance for 30+ years.

Obviously people with kids or family situations/emergencies will check [who is calling] when their phones ring to see if anything is wrong. That is no excuse for devices being OUT at the a table. But "I need it for my character" is a nonstarter, for the obvious and simple fact that..."No, you don't. Write it down."

I am well aware that other people's MMV.

Wow! You are really against anything other than pencil and paper! Well, we have been playing close to 40 years together now, and we find that calculating sheets, taking and sharing notes, annotating maps and such is much easier with tablets. I'm close to 50, the youngest of the group, and actually use 2 tablets at once! One for my character, and one to search the PHB or DMG, much faster.

Like you say, YMMV, but I find going totally against any tools at the table is limiting.

 

[MechaPilot]

Let me just say that my group is composed of my best friends, I love those guys but they annoy me sometimes.
One of them is always on his phone, the whole damn time...he lifts his head when his turn is up in combat, takes a ton of time to actually do anything (doesn't help that he's a spellcaster) rather than plan while its everyone else's turns and then goes back to his phone. Outside of combat he barely participates (he claims that he's letting the others act, but it's clear that he's just too focused on his phone). I know players find their own fun and its probably my fault for not making it exciting enough to grab his attention...but everyone else seems to enjoy it...so I dunno.
The rest pay attention most of the time, though they do tend to get distracted easily...then again, it's normal for anyone...even I lose focus from time to time too.

Anyway, last night we had the end of a certain dungeon. They found the big bad boss who had several magical and expensive items. An adamantine full plate set, gauntlets of ogre strength, mithral longsword, a longsword of wounding, a ring of mindshielding a masterwork long bow and one arrow of elf slaying. When they defeated the boss I described what they had (of course, not pointing out what was magical and what wasn't). I made sure to note that the gauntlets were made to look like part of the full set though the iconography seemed different. I also mentioned that the ring was placed on the gauntlet in such a way, that it was stuck there (think Sauron's armor with the ring).
The party became focused on the sword of wounding since it seemed to have some kind of curse (I placed a ghost guardian linked to it) and they told me that they would bundle the full set up completely and carry it as is. Once they arrived to town, three members of the group went to the temple about their mission while the ranger went to the blacksmith and magic shop to see what they could find about the gear and their prices.

The ranger went to the blacksmith first and presented the adamantine armor set. The player had completely forgotten that the gauntlets of ogre strength and the ring were placed with the armor as part of the set (or he just wasn't paying attention when the barbarian told me he'd put it all together for later). The armorsmith checked it over and when he noticed the ring he casually asked if the whole thing was for sale, making sure not to mention the ring (he didn't even know the gauntlets were magical). The ranger absentmindedly said yes and sold it for a very fair price (for an adamantine armor), not realizing he was giving the gauntlets and ring away as well. He then moved on to the magic shop (to check the swords) and then met up with the rest of the crew.
It was then, when they wanted to check the ring and gauntlets that I reminded them that it was all in the set, that the ranger had sold. They were not pleased...and some were not pleased with me for not telling them. Naturally they went back to the blacksmith but he told them it had been a legitimate deal and that the gauntlets (which he didn't know about until then) and the ring were sold to him fairly, that he asked if the ranger was selling the whole thing and that it wasn't his fault the elf wasn't paying attention.

They obviously wanted it back, but he refused. I personally thought it could make a fun little side-plot, with them trying to get the items back...some saw it that way, others didn't. They tried to sneak around and steal it back, sending the sneakier ranger to the back entrance while the rest distracted the shopkeeper. When he got there, he realized that they would need to dismantle the gauntlet's finger to get the ring and not wanting to be too obvious, he left it all as was. It was only when I made a joke about the ranger leaving the door open, that I noticed how aggravated they had become by it all (I never worry about details like leaving doors opened or closed while sneaking unless it's important) but their reaction was a bit...angrier than expected.

So now, they want the items back and are planning the best way to steal them (this was a good/neutral party btw). While most seem generally fine (more or less) with what happened, it's the one that had his face glued to the phone the whole time that is super sour about it. Telling me that from now on he won't trust anyone because they were all thieves and that everyone in my world are s that take advantage of people. Granted, the blacksmith is a not a very honest person...but every time something doesn't go this player's way in social interactions he gets super salty about it all.

It does appear to me that mistakes were made. It's not that I haven't made mistakes before. I have, and some of them were more significant or egregious than the ones presented here.

Phone Guy
There was a clear mistake here on the part of both parties. Phone guy should have had more courtesy. Or, failing that, you should have informed him that playing on his phone was not acceptable behavior during game time, and then enforced that rule if necessary.

Magic Item Detection
According to the rules by the book, one can tell if items are magical and can learn of their properties during a short rest. If you are deviating from those rules, that's fine, provided the players know that's the case. If you did not alert the players to such a deviation, that was a mistake. If the players knew but were not more careful, that also would be a mistake.

Shady Blacksmith
Assuming the blacksmith was not viewing the items openly, and that as a consequence the PC couldn't see them and be reminded of the gauntlets and the ring, the player in question should have been allowed to make an Intelligence check to see if he remembered that the items of interest were bundled up with the armor. Or, the player should have been allowed a Wisdom check to see if noticed the ulterior motives of the blacksmith. If the blacksmith was looking at the contents of the bundle in plain view of the PC, you should have really just reminded the player about the gauntlets and ring.

Buyback
Assuming the blacksmith had not yet been able to verify that the gauntlets and ring were magical, he really should have been willing to sell them back to the PCs for slightly more than he paid for them. Maybe it would have been a good opportunity for the PCs to use some sort of Charisma check to bluff the blacksmith into thinking the items that were sold to him by accident were mundane items, not magical ones. Alternately, the blacksmith could have agreed to trade them back to the PCs in exchange for a favor: perhaps forcing them to guard a shipment of supplies to him or finished goods from him, or forcing them to covertly steal goods that would have gone to or from one of his rivals.

Ultimately, as long as you are able to smooth things over with your players and you can learn from the experience, you should be fine. I would apologize to the players, fix the problem (i.e. give them their goods back), and then privately have a stern but polite talk with the phone guy about table etiquette.

 

[Yardiff]

What I'm wondering during this shop hopping, what were the other Players doing while the Ranger was selling the stuff? In my group we are our characters memory, as a group we remind players of stuff their characters should remember. Maybe that's just the way we work together.

What were the other players doing when the Ranger only mentioned the swords as the only items needing to be identified to the magic shop owner?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[billd91]

Keep in mind that players can't see what you see happening in the gaming world. Their only insight into what is going on is what you say. If you're ambiguous, then their mental image of the world is going to be different than yours. It's inevitable for that to happen to a degree, but in cases where it's obvious that you have a different picture of the scene in your head than the players, then you need to clarify exactly what the scene is.

So, to sum it up, the player in your story did not intend to sell the gauntlets & ring, and you inadvertently tricked them into doing so by your scene descriptions.

I'm not so sure the tricking was inadvertent. And I think you're right - if the players have a misconception of what's going on in the game world compared to the GM's, then the burden is on the GM to rectify it when appropriate, not take advantage of a player's inattentiveness. That's dick behavior and Wil Wheaton says "Don't be a dick."

 

[ThirdWizard]

3. The one person who isn't okay with it is Mr. Cellphone.

The story actually kind of changes as the OP goes on.

The ranger went to the blacksmith first and presented the adamantine armor set. The player had completely forgotten that the gauntlets of ogre strength and the ring were placed with the armor as part of the set (or he just wasn't paying attention when the barbarian told me he'd put it all together for later). The armorsmith checked it over and when he noticed the ring he casually asked if the whole thing was for sale, making sure not to mention the ring (he didn't even know the gauntlets were magical). The ranger absentmindedly said yes and sold it for a very fair price (for an adamantine armor), not realizing he was giving the gauntlets and ring away as well. He then moved on to the magic shop (to check the swords) and then met up with the rest of the crew.
It was then, when they wanted to check the ring and gauntlets that I reminded them that it was all in the set, that the ranger had sold. They were not pleased...and some were not pleased with me for not telling them. Naturally they went back to the blacksmith but he told them it had been a legitimate deal and that the gauntlets (which he didn't know about until then) and the ring were sold to him fairly, that he asked if the ranger was selling the whole thing and that it wasn't his fault the elf wasn't paying attention.


They obviously wanted it back, but he refused. I personally thought it could make a fun little side-plot, with them trying to get the items back...some saw it that way, others didn't. They tried to sneak around and steal it back, sending the sneakier ranger to the back entrance while the rest distracted the shopkeeper. When he got there, he realized that they would need to dismantle the gauntlet's finger to get the ring and not wanting to be too obvious, he left it all as was. It was only when I made a joke about the ranger leaving the door open, that I noticed how aggravated they had become by it all (I never worry about details like leaving doors opened or closed while sneaking unless it's important) but their reaction was a bit...angrier than expected.


So now, they want the items back and are planning the best way to steal them (this was a good/neutral party btw). While most seem generally fine (more or less) with what happened, it's the one that had his face glued to the phone the whole time that is super sour about it. Telling me that from now on he won't trust anyone because they were all thieves and that everyone in my world are s that take advantage of people. Granted, the blacksmith is a not a very honest person...but every time something doesn't go this player's way in social interactions he gets super salty about it all.

Note that every single time the OP mentions players (plural) being upset, except the very last paragraph. It is always multiple people until the OP again mentions his butting heads with cellphone guy, at which point it is mostly about the two of them. It really seems like the several people in the group are upset with the way the DM handled the situation, enough that he said that they were antagonistic about it in some way. Then at the end, either they kind of resign themselves to the situation except the cellphone guy or the DM is just overly sensitive about cellphone guy's reaction more so than the rest because of previous aggravation. I'm not sure which it is.

But, it isn't just one problem player getting upset. It's multiple players.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

The players just need to now convince the shady blacksmith that the ring is cursed (why else would it not be able to be removed) and warn/rescue him. Could be some fun in that.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Sunseeker]

You purpousfully played a backsmith trying to trick the players out of their stuff, so yes. It is your fault.

I assume the "forgetful elf" is the guy on the phone? It's rather unclear. If his nose is in his phone more often then not than well cuss-word him 'cause he should be paying attention.

So it's your fault for tricking the players out of their stuff, knowing full well your blacksmith was a trickster and knowing full well the player forgot or wasn't properly informed by his allies. It's ALSO that other guy's fault for not paying attention. It also feels like by even jokingly tracking something you don't normally track, you were going out of your way to make their theft attempts unreasonably difficult.

Personally, I'm leaning with the players on this one. It feels to me that you knew what you were doing and took advantage of player forgetfulness and ignored the possible attentiveness of the characters in order to rip them off. That blacksmith is lucky your players apparently don't believe in Wild West justice. I've had plenty-a-party that when they realize they've been swindled, resort to violence.