Watchmen have brought *real* role-playing to D&D

[catsclaw]

Uh, no. The Iliad and the Odyssey are not comics. And it's certainly debatable whether they're better.

Not comics, yes. But it's only "debatable" that they're not better than Watchmen in the same way it's "debatable" that grass tastes worse than vanilla ice cream or a foghorn is more musically interesting than the Jonas Brothers.

Which is to say, I'm sure you can find people who will argue the point, but it's probably best not to take them too seriously. Watchmen is more fun, maybe, easier to read, certainly, preferable to while away a lazy afternoon, perhaps. But better? No.

I don't think it detracts from the the comic to suggest it falls a little short, by any reasonable standard, of one of the longest-surviving and most durable works of literature in history. Call me in 2,000 years if they're still interested in making a movie from Watchmen, and we'll talk.

 

[Drowbane]

ridiculous

Eh... what?

I've been gaming since Summer of 89'. I've done everything from Beer'n'Pretzels to Hack'n'Slash to Deep Immersion. I certainly didn't need a comic book to show me how to inject a personality into my characters.

That said, I fully intend on seeing the movie. Its about damn time a big DC Comic that isn't one of the "World's Finest" hit the silver screen.

 

[Leatherhead]

I don't think it detracts from the the comic to suggest it falls a little short, by any reasonable standard, of one of the longest-surviving and most durable works of literature in history. Call me in 2,000 years if they're still interested in making a movie from Watchmen, and we'll talk.

I believe they call that an Appeal to Tradition Fallacy.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I am just saying that may not be the best way to prove it.

 

[Primal]

It's the best comic book ever written.

Normally a statement like that would be setting expectations too high, but probably not in this case.

I whole-heartedly agree. Watchmen is, in my opinion, the best graphic novel ever done (Maus and the Sandman being close behind it).

 

[Bullgrit]

I believe that call that an Appeal to Tradition Fallacy.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I am just saying that may not be the best way to prove it.

And I thought Iliad and Odyssey were notable merely because they are the only stories extant of their times, not necessarily the best of their times. School kids are forced to read them because they are the last remaining examples of stories from that time, not because they are the greatest stories of all times.

Bullgrit

 

[thedungeondelver]

It's the best comic book ever written.

Normally a statement like that would be setting expectations too high, but probably not in this case.

Not only is WATCHMEN the best comic book ever created, it has a comic book inside which is head and shoulders above most stand-alone comic books.

Yeah, I said that.

 

[Wayside]

And I thought Iliad and Odyssey were notable merely because they are the only stories extant of their times, not necessarily the best of their times. School kids are forced to read them because they are the last remaining examples of stories from that time, not because they are the greatest stories of all times.

Then you thought wrong. Homer is only a fraction of surviving Greek literature, and he was used in schools even in the ancient Greek world precisely because he's so much better than everybody else.

 

[Umbran]

Which is to say, I'm sure you can find people who will argue the point, but it's probably best not to take them too seriously. Watchmen is more fun, maybe, easier to read, certainly, preferable to while away a lazy afternoon, perhaps. But better? No.

Because, as we all know, there's objective measures that we all agree upon that make one piece of literature better than another? I think not.

Please, folks, as a fellow poster, I ask you to stop with the absolutes, especially the ones phrased in the form of, "If you disagree with me, you are not worth talking to." People are allowed to have different tastes and preferences, up to and including thinking that Watchmen is better than anything Homer wrote.

If you fail to make allowances for that, then I think you will find you rather quickly become the person who will not be taken too seriously.

 

[Jack Colby]

and I couldn't agree with LotFP less.

That, my friends, isn't role-playings. Its chess. I give his "character" as much concern as I would a pawn or the Shoe in monopoly.

If I'm not playing D&D to create a character, I'm playing a toon with nothing more than a handful or numbers scrawled on a sheet of paper. No depth. No history. No quirks and talents. No dreams, fears, loves and hates.

Might as well pay WoW for all that means to me.

His point seems to be that the ideal characterization comes out of play, not before it begins. And that players need to accept that their character can fail and die, regardless of the work they put in or the hopes they have for his or her future. Inventing the character personality before play can be seen as putting the cart before the horse, and lead to results that don't mesh with actual gameplay very well. Of course he isn't "right", but neither is he wrong. It's one view of how it should work, and valid.