Ways to get to Fochlucan Lyrist?

[Rythannian]

I am trying to enter the Fochlucan Lyrist prestige class. Has anybody used this class?

My two stumbling blocks are Evasion and Bardic Knowledge. (mostly Evasion)

I'm looking for ways to get Evasion without being a 2nd level Rouge (or 5th level Scout.)

Also, trickier yet, I'd like to know if there are any classes that provide the Bardic Knowledge ability. Lore Master is close to the mark but Lore is thier class ability.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

2nd-level Monks also get Evasion.

Note that the PrC is basically meant for multiclass Rogue / Bard / Druids.

 

[nak9788]

The Monk gains Evasion and I believe so does the Barbarian (not sure). Keep in mind the Lyrist is a fairly powerful class so it stands to reason that multiple levels would be required to gain the prequisites.

 

[Bill Muench]

Prescient Sense, in my view, fulfills the Evasion requirement. It is described as a "form of evasion". So something like a Brd2/Drd6/Divine Oracle2 should qualify.

Bill

 

[Rystil Arden]

I houseruled that the Loremaster Lore ability satisfies the prerequisite. Also, it would be markedly stupid, but you technically could take 9 levels in Ranger instead of 2 in Rogue or Monk. Of course, 2 levels in Rouge won't get you much more than Makeup Mastery (Take 10 on checks to apply makeup for Disguise, even when threatened or rushed).

 

[DanMcS]

Does everyone think that it's intentional for the class to reuquire levels in three separate classes to enter that PrC? The book talks about it being a class for druid/bards, I don't remember a mention of rogues at all. It seems to me more like the author thought bards got evasion and they don't.

I guess it's possible they meant it, though.

 

[kenobi65]

The Monk gains Evasion and I believe so does the Barbarian (not sure).

Nope, no Evasion for barbarians (I think you're thinking of Uncanny Dodge, which barbarians *do* get).

Monk may be an awkward way to get Evasion, as monks must be lawful, while bards must be nonlawful. So, to get levels in both, the PC in question would need to make an alignment change somewhere along the line (which may or may not be a significant stumbling block in the campaign in question).

Keep in mind that Fochluchan Lyrist is clearly intended as an homage to the 1E bard, which was essentially a triple-classed Fighter / Thief / Druid. So, that's why the class favors a particular set of qualifications.

 

[kenobi65]

Does everyone think that it's intentional for the class to reuquire levels in three separate classes to enter that PrC? The book talks about it being a class for druid/bards, I don't remember a mention of rogues at all. It seems to me more like the author thought bards got evasion and they don't.

I guess it's possible they meant it, though.

I think it was absolutely intentional. See my post above.

 

[Gez]

I'm looking for ways to get Evasion without being a 2nd level Rogue (or 5th level Scout.)

Shadowdancer 2.

Here's an example of a build. It's pretty ability score- and race-neutral, as in it supposes you don't have bonus feats or more than the base skill points per level.

Red are unfulfilled prerequisites, green are fulfilled ones. (Shad) are for shadowdancer requirements, (Foch) for Fochlucan Lyrist ones.

1: Bard 1
(Shad) Combat Reflex
(Shad) Dodge
(Shad) Mobility
(Foch) Decipher Script 4/7
(Foch) Diplomacy 0/7
(Foch) Gather Information 4/7
(Shad) Hide 4/10
(Foch) Knowledge Nature 0/7
(Shad) Move Silently 4/8
(Shad) Perform Dance 4/5
(Foch) Perform String 4/13
(Foch) Sleight of Hand 0/7
(Foch) Speak Language Druidic
(Foch) 1st-level Arcane Spells
(Foch) 1st-level Divine Spells
(Foch) Bardic Knowledge
(Foch) Evasion
(Foch) NG, TN, CN, or NE alignment

2: Druid 1
(Shad) Combat Reflex
(Shad) Dodge
(Shad) Mobility
(Foch) Decipher Script 4/7
(Foch) Diplomacy 0/7
(Foch) Gather Information 4/7
(Shad) Hide 4/10
(Foch) Knowledge Nature 4/7
(Shad) Move Silently 4/8
(Shad) Perform Dance 4/5
(Foch) Perform String 4/13
(Foch) Sleight of Hand 0/7
(Foch) Speak Language Druidic
(Foch) 1st-level Arcane Spells
(Foch) 1st-level Divine Spells
(Foch) Bardic Knowledge
(Foch) Evasion
(Foch) NG, TN, CN, or NE alignment

3: Bard 2
(Shad) Combat Reflex
(Shad) Dodge
(Shad) Mobility
(Foch) Decipher Script 4/7
(Foch) Diplomacy 0/7
(Foch) Gather Information 4/7
(Shad) Hide 6/10
(Foch) Knowledge Nature 4/7
(Shad) Move Silently 6/8
(Shad) Perform Dance 5/5
(Foch) Perform String 5/13
(Foch) Sleight of Hand 0/7
(Foch) Speak Language Druidic
(Foch) 1st-level Arcane Spells
(Foch) 1st-level Divine Spells
(Foch) Bardic Knowledge
(Foch) Evasion
(Foch) NG, TN, CN, or NE alignment

4: Bard 3
(Shad) Combat Reflex
(Shad) Dodge
(Shad) Mobility
(Foch) Decipher Script 6/7
(Foch) Diplomacy 0/7
(Foch) Gather Information 4/7
(Shad) Hide 7/10
(Foch) Knowledge Nature 4/7
(Shad) Move Silently 7/8
(Shad) Perform Dance 5/5
(Foch) Perform String 7/13
(Foch) Sleight of Hand 0/7
(Foch) Speak Language Druidic
(Foch) 1st-level Arcane Spells
(Foch) 1st-level Divine Spells
(Foch) Bardic Knowledge
(Foch) Evasion
(Foch) NG, TN, CN, or NE alignment

5: Bard 4
(Shad) Combat Reflex
(Shad) Dodge
(Shad) Mobility
(Foch) Decipher Script 6/7
(Foch) Diplomacy 0/7
(Foch) Gather Information 6/7
(Shad) Hide 8/10
(Foch) Knowledge Nature 5/7
(Shad) Move Silently 8/8
(Shad) Perform Dance 5/5
(Foch) Perform String 8/13
(Foch) Sleight of Hand 0/7
(Foch) Speak Language Druidic
(Foch) 1st-level Arcane Spells
(Foch) 1st-level Divine Spells
(Foch) Bardic Knowledge
(Foch) Evasion
(Foch) NG, TN, CN, or NE alignment

6: Bard 5
(Shad) Combat Reflex
(Shad) Dodge
(Shad) Mobility
(Foch) Decipher Script 6/7
(Foch) Diplomacy 0/7
(Foch) Gather Information 7/7
(Shad) Hide 9/10
(Foch) Knowledge Nature 7/7
(Shad) Move Silently 8/8
(Shad) Perform Dance 5/5
(Foch) Perform String 9/13
(Foch) Sleight of Hand 1/7
(Foch) Speak Language Druidic
(Foch) 1st-level Arcane Spells
(Foch) 1st-level Divine Spells
(Foch) Bardic Knowledge
(Foch) Evasion
(Foch) NG, TN, CN, or NE alignment

7: Bard 6
(Shad) Combat Reflex
(Shad) Dodge
(Shad) Mobility
(Foch) Decipher Script 7/7
(Foch) Diplomacy 3/7
(Foch) Gather Information 7/7
(Shad) Hide 10/10
(Foch) Knowledge Nature 7/7
(Shad) Move Silently 8/8
(Shad) Perform Dance 5/5
(Foch) Perform String 10/13
(Foch) Sleight of Hand 1/7
(Foch) Speak Language Druidic
(Foch) 1st-level Arcane Spells
(Foch) 1st-level Divine Spells
(Foch) Bardic Knowledge
(Foch) Evasion
(Foch) NG, TN, CN, or NE alignment


8: Shadowdancer 1
(Shad) Combat Reflex
(Shad) Dodge
(Shad) Mobility
(Foch) Decipher Script 7/7
(Foch) Diplomacy 7/7
(Foch) Gather Information 7/7
(Shad) Hide 10/10
(Foch) Knowledge Nature 7/7
(Shad) Move Silently 8/8
(Shad) Perform Dance 5/5
(Foch) Perform String 11/13
(Foch) Sleight of Hand 2/7
(Foch) Speak Language Druidic
(Foch) 1st-level Arcane Spells
(Foch) 1st-level Divine Spells
(Foch) Bardic Knowledge
(Foch) Evasion
(Foch) NG, TN, CN, or NE alignment

9: Shadowdancer 2
(Shad) Combat Reflex
(Shad) Dodge
(Shad) Mobility
(Foch) Decipher Script 7/7
(Foch) Diplomacy 7/7
(Foch) Gather Information 7/7
(Shad) Hide 10/10
(Foch) Knowledge Nature 7/7
(Shad) Move Silently 8/8
(Shad) Perform Dance 5/5
(Foch) Perform String 12/13
(Foch) Sleight of Hand 7/7
(Foch) Speak Language Druidic
(Foch) 1st-level Arcane Spells
(Foch) 1st-level Divine Spells
(Foch) Bardic Knowledge
(Foch) Evasion
(Foch) NG, TN, CN, or NE alignment

10: Bard 7 or Shadowdancer 3 (same thing as far as the remaining requisite skill points are concerned)
(Shad) Combat Reflex
(Shad) Dodge
(Shad) Mobility
(Foch) Decipher Script 7/7
(Foch) Diplomacy 7/7
(Foch) Gather Information 7/7
(Shad) Hide 10/10
(Foch) Knowledge Nature 7/7
(Shad) Move Silently 8/8
(Shad) Perform Dance 5/5
(Foch) Perform String 13/13
(Foch) Sleight of Hand 7/7
(Foch) Speak Language Druidic
(Foch) 1st-level Arcane Spells
(Foch) 1st-level Divine Spells
(Foch) Bardic Knowledge
(Foch) Evasion
(Foch) NG, TN, CN, or NE alignment
(+5 non-attributed skill points you can place where you want)

11: Your first Fochlucan level! Congratulations!

Note that I've considered you had no bonus skill points. Anyway, this proved you can fulfill all the required skill allotment save the Perform String instrument one before you get to level 10, required to have 13 ranks in any skill. So if you're human, or smart, or both, you should feel free to put the extra skill points wherever you want. Furthermore, your racial bonus feat, if any, and your level 9 feats can be used for what you want.

If you have several bonus skill points, you could take less bard levels and more druidic levels. But the druid's only class skills useful for an aspiring Fochlucan are Knowledge Nature and Diplomacy. So if you want more druid levels, use none of your bard and shadowdancer skill points for these two skills. With a total +3 bonus (for an Int 16, or a human with Int 14), two druid levels are enough to put them both at 7 ranks (the second druid level must be at character level 4 or later, though).

Compared to a rogue or monk build, this will bring you several unique abilities, notably uncanny dodge, hide in plain sight and darkvision. Potentially, if so you want, shadow illusion, and summon shadow.
A rogue build would instead bring you trapfinding and sneak attack +1d6 (potentially +2d6). The rogue build could give you uncanny dodge too, but at the cost of four rogue levels instead of just two.
A monk build would bring you bonus feats (which could speed up your qualification for shadowdancer, but if you go the monk route, you won't need to become a shadowdancer anyway), the flurry of blow ability, and the improved unarmed strike with 1d6 damage. Plus a lot of exotic weapon proficiencies. Potentially, Still Mind, a +10 bonus to speed, and an unarmed damage boosted to 1d8. The big problem of the monk build is that you'll have to do your alignment shift from lawful something to neutral something. And to do it twice if you start as a bard (who must be non-lawful).

 

[iconherder]

Gez,

This might be a noob question, but I was under the impression that the soonest you could get Shadowdancer was character level 8 because of the 10 ranks in Hide requirement.

What are you doing to get past that? I'd really like to have Shadowdancer earlier.