We need a cool new name for character optimizers...

[krunchyfrogg]

I just don't understand the hatred of "powergamers." What's wrong with a character trying to be the best at something? That is an incredibly common motivation in literature and real life. Wizzy the Wizard didn't spend all those years as an apprentice with the hopes of becoming a mediocre mage. He wants to be the best.

What about other games? Is it wrong to try to get Boardwalk and Park Place in Monopoly? It is against the spirit of gaming to try to get a full house in poker?

Great post. If my previous ones didn't get across the point, this is what I was shooting for.

BTW, LL, nice avatar. Are you an imaging professional?

 

[Umbran]

Can you really call 99.9%a subsection?

I warned someone else here that smilies are not considered armor against being insulting. That goes for everyone.

Folks, enough with the snide insults and over-generalizations. You may not like how some other folks play, but htat does not give you cause to demean them. You can talk about why you don't like that playstyle without poking jabs, or you can not talk about it on these boards at all.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

If you seek ultimate power, wouldn't that mak you a NINJA!?!

--sam

LOL.

REAL ULTIMATE POWER!

 

[krunchyfrogg]

There have always been powergaming threads here and very few of them are 'demonized'.

The term munchkin is not the same IMO as the term powergamer. A munchkin is an immature player (hence the reference to the midgets of Oz).

Immature acts that indicate someone is a munchkin include:

• Blatant Metagaming
• Ridiculous Min-Maxing
• Fudging Dice Rolls
• Modifying Character Sheets Behind the DM's Back
• Irrational Character Behavior to Instigate Trouble
• Promoting Party Infighting
• Stealing from the Party

Thank you for the clarification. Your quote was a central point of my earlier post. I disagree, however. I haven't been here for quite a while, but I remember these boards really having some negative feedback in regards to powergamers, while boards like wizards.net (or whatever the wotc site is), was the complete other side of the spectrum, with many powergaming posts, but few about roleplaying.

Personally, I prefer a nice balance. I like characters, who, in character try to be the best they can be. I don't min/max stats, I don't cheat, but while roleplaying, as in real life, I try to do the best that I can. I try to do my job the best that I can, I try to be the best husband I can, and I try to be the best when I play sports. I like my characters to try to be the best Wizard, Warrior, or whatever they can be.

 

[Piratecat]

I just don't understand the hatred of "powergamers." What's wrong with a character trying to be the best at something?

For me, the problem comes when someone is a power gamer and the other players aren't, or the DM doesn't like that style. That seems to create problems. I love optimizing my characters -- but I have to make a conscious effort not to do it at the expense of other peoples' fun. If I'm stealing all the scenes and getting cool moments because my PC is great at what he does, that's not playing nice with others -- and I've found I have MORE fun if they're also enjoying themselves.

That's one of the reason I dig support characters like marshals. They make everyone better.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

If you seek ultimate power, wouldn't that mak you a NINJA!?!

Absolutely not! Ninjas have ultimate power, they don't need to seek it. Having REAL ULTIMATE POWER (capital letters are required) is only one of the prerequisites for becoming a ninja. The others are knowing at least 1 billion ways to kill a man without any tools, and being able to deliver a burger - anywhere in the multiverse in under 30 minutes, and without the customer detecting your presence!

 

[krunchyfrogg]

Absolutely not! Ninjas have ultimate power, they don't need to seek it. Having REAL ULTIMATE POWER (capital letters are required) is only one of the prerequisites for becoming a ninja. The others are knowing at least 1 billion ways to kill a man without any tools, and being able to deliver a burger - anywhere in the multiverse in under 30 minutes, and without the customer detecting your presence!

And then they wail on their guitars!

 

[zen_hydra]

Absolutely not! Ninjas have ultimate power, they don't need to seek it. Having REAL ULTIMATE POWER (capital letters are required) is only one of the prerequisites for becoming a ninja. The others are knowing at least 1 billion ways to kill a man without any tools, and being able to deliver a burger - anywhere in the multiverse in under 30 minutes, and without the customer detecting your presence!

Also, to be a NINJA, one has to be a mammal.

 

[takasi]

For me, the problem comes when someone is a power gamer and the other players aren't, or the DM doesn't like that style. That seems to create problems.

QFT.

I love playing games with suboptimal characters; sometimes it's the quirks that make the game memorable and fun, not the heroics. However, if I have the luxury of multiple games (which I currently do) I prefer to play both.

In one campaign we had a few new players join the game while at around 7th level and I tried to balance it out for them. On one side we had players with 25 point buy using warforged, psionics, bullywugs, whisper gnomes, grey orcs, artificers and other 'creepy' stuff. These guys just wanted to play a human fighter and a human wizard using nothing but the core rulebooks, so I let them start at 32 point buy. Even though they were IMO evenly matched, they later confided that they were jealous of the other characters.

The solution? We made the human fighter a dragonborn and the wizard was introduced to the spell compendium and reserve feats.

However, if this was our only campaign, they still would have been unhappy because they would prefer to spend their time developing their character's storyline rather than their character's statblock. The solution? We started a core only game rolling for stats (3d6 down the line) to determine your character instead of building your character. They are now very happy.