Weak fighters and armor

[Friend of the Dork]

Hello

While considering dex-based fighter builds I was suddenly struck by a notion: What happens if you are encumbered by weight but ignore the encumbrance of armor?

I'm talking of the fighter's Armor Training ability of course. It allows you to move at full speed while wearing medium and later, heavy armor, and reduces armor check penalty as well as increasing max dex.

Now does this apply to encumbrance? It is listed as a check penalty that "works like ACP" but may be worse than that ACP, and may slow you down more than your armor does. This could mean full speed in full plate becomes difficult for fighters that does not max strength score.

Example: A 15th level fighter with str 10 and dex 20 (don't ask) wears a full plate and has an acp of -1, 30' speed and maxdex +5 from his Armor Training. However his mw full plate alone weighs 50 pounds, he carries 10 pounds in weapons, 10lb for his shield, and 5 pounds in various equipment (a VERY light load for any adventurerer). Total is 75lb, enough to give him heavy encumbrance! That reduces max dex to +1 and acp to -6, as well as reducing speed back down to 20... what a sad Fighter.

So, any official ruling clarifying that either armor weight does not apply in this case, or that you armor training also affects load and increases maxdex and armor check modifier?

Note that it may also affect characters with a decent strength that is carrying typical adventurers gear.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Now does this apply to encumbrance?

No.

 

[enrious]

Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.

In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.

I don't see where Armor Training applies at all to encumbrance, apart from where it reduces the ACP.

So your 15th level fighter has a -4 to ACP for Armor Training, +6 to ACP for being heavily encumbered for a net of +2 to ACP.

He would ordinarily run at 30' in his heavy armor, but encumbrance trumps Armor Training.

I saw nothing in the FAQ or forum to dispute this.

 

[Friend of the Dork]

Well seems like you need strength for a fighter then. Period.

 

[enrious]

3.x/3.PF is not a game for dex-based fighters, IMO.

 

[rangerjohn]

Your basically going to need at least a 13 str to wear full plate. If its made out of mithral, which should be no problem for a high level adventurer. Thats still pushing it without something like a haversack. So while it is possible to do, both the character and his equipment, have to be designed with it in mind.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

3.x/3.PF is not a game for dex-based fighters, IMO.

This.

And weight encumbrance is a very small part of it.

I will say, PF is much less the game for it than 3.5E. At least with Tome of Battle you could actually build a decent high dex skirmishing character. In Patfhinder, on the other hand, skirmishing is inhenerently suicidal. Apparently being able to tumble in and out of melee without a 60% chance of being whomped was overpowered.