Wealth System Fix?

[Staffan]

And? I don't find it unreasonable that at some point, the flat cost of an item is going to tax, in some way, anybody's current finances. Wealth is fluid. The richest man in the world only has X number of dollars in his pocket, in his accounts, in liquid form. Going from Wealth +500 to +499 is a small small fraction, but it's enough to be noticable.

The problem with this is that the sultan of Brunei, with Wealth +500, will be impoverished after buying approximately 490 Glocks (483 brings him down to +17, a further 5 brings him down to +7, and then he loses 1d6+1 points of Wealth per gun, so he can afford about two more). A quick websearch showed that a Glock costs about $500, so the net worth of someone who has wealth +500 is approximately $245,000.

To quote Jubal Early: That seem right to you?

 

[pensiv]

is a Glock still considered DC > 15 for the Sultan of Brunei?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Yea, on the far edges of the curve, stuff starts to break down. As I said, it's a price I'm willing to pay. I won't have anybody with a +500 Wealth, for one, so it won't ever come up.

Two, the DC and whatnot are listed for a single gun, single rate, personal purchase at a store. If the Sultan O' Brunei wants to buy 1200 Glocks then he goes to the manufacturer and asks for 1200 Glocks, then he's quoted a price for the lot, the DC is 36 or whatever and he swipes his SultanExpress card and goes on with the rest of his day, losing only one Wealth.

The system is created to deal with single-item/on-the-fly/consumer-purchase style transactions ... that's what it does, and it does it well. The fact that you can't take a Wealth DC and use it, as is, to purchase 500 Glocks doesn't really mean anything.

It's like saying that my parachute works great when I jump out of an airplane, but it doesn't work as well when I jump off the roof of the house, so the parachute doesn't work. Or that SCUBA works great for diving but isn't as useful in the bathtub. On the surface it may seem like buying one Glock from a gun store in Vice City is exactly like buying 1200 Glocks, but it's not.

--fje

The problem with this is that the sultan of Brunei, with Wealth +500, will be impoverished after buying approximately 490 Glocks (483 brings him down to +17, a further 5 brings him down to +7, and then he loses 1d6+1 points of Wealth per gun, so he can afford about two more). A quick websearch showed that a Glock costs about $500, so the net worth of someone who has wealth +500 is approximately $245,000.

To quote Jubal Early: That seem right to you?

 

[jaerdaph]

Heap's got it.

The important word to remember about the Wealth system - abstract. Keep it simple and cinematic.

A person with +500 Wealth wouldn't buy 500 glocks individually. He'd buy the lot at one Purchase DC. 500 glocks x $500 is $250,000. According to Table 7-1 on p. 204 of d20 Modern, that's a Purchase DC of 36 to buy the lot.

 

[takyris]

But what if it's vital to the concept of the character of the Sultan that he be the kind of person who would purchase 500 Glocks individually? What if he's just that kind of guy, the incredibly wealthy guy who goes into a small arms shop and buys a single gun, 500 times? Unless I can play my serial gun-purchasing Sultan, the system is broken! Broken, I tell you!

Orrrrrrrrrrr... to put it another way... I disagree, and am moving on.

 

[jaerdaph]

But what if it's vital to the concept of the character of the Sultan that he be the kind of person who would purchase 500 Glocks individually? What if he's just that kind of guy, the incredibly wealthy guy who goes into a small arms shop and buys a single gun, 500 times? Unless I can play my serial gun-purchasing Sultan, the system is broken! Broken, I tell you!

Orrrrrrrrrrr... to put it another way... I disagree, and am moving on.

Ah, but if the game included rules so that a PC could become the Sultan of +500 Wealth bonus, we'd hear that other old chestnut that is never backed up, "this class isn't balanced!"

 

[slingbld]

I have a possible fix here. One that keeps it as abstract & simple as it is now yet, makes it a LITTLE more realistic.

Replace the anything over Purchase DC 15 always will cause you to loose 1 wealth to: Anything over 15 *OR* costing at least half your Wealth bonus (whichever is higer) will cause an automatic loss of 1 wealth point.

Example: Russ the computer wiz has a snazzy job & a wealth bonus of 24. Since 1/2 his W/B is 12, then the ruling is anything cosint him 15 + will cost him 1 wealth minimum.
Now we have Bill, THE computer GURU with a wealth bonus of 60. 1/2 his wealth bonus is 30. Thus only things with a Wealth DC of 30 or more will automatically reduce his W/B.

This still breaks down a bit on the high end but it can carry through farther up the DC chart before it starts to break down.

ie: Sultan w/ a wealth bonus of 500: could buy unlimited DC 240 and never suffer, That's still broken but you won't run into that every day (or month, or year, or probably decade)

Slingbld~

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Unless you're playing a 500-armed monstrousity with a massive LA, I don't see how 500 Glocks are broken. Maybe you should have spent the Wealth on ammo instead

Or, maybe you "bought" an army, but the DM can keep that under control via roleplay. The soldiers are lower-level than you, they demand to be paid in something other than Glocks, and if you tick them off you've got 497 Glocks pointing at your back (-2 for the ones you kept, and another for your spy in the unit).

Anyway, I liked the sell-off Wealth reward idea. I may (grudgingly) add Wealth to my campaign as a result. I'm still not taken with the random starting roll, though.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Anyway, I liked the sell-off Wealth reward idea. I may (grudgingly) add Wealth to my campaign as a result. I'm still not taken with the random starting roll, though.

Then don't use it.

There's a table in there with a breakdown of what kind of lifestyle/economic class is representative of what Wealth. Decide what the players are and give them that Wealth bonus.

The system already more or less does that as it is with the occupation starting-Wealth bonus ... a Doctor, at worst, will be lower-middle-class ... maybe he's had hard times or works in an inner-city hospital for less money. Etc.

I find it works okay. Most of my group started at or around Upper Middle Class, all within 3-4 points of eachother.

--fje

 

[slingbld]

I have a possible fix here. One that keeps it as abstract & simple as it is now yet, makes it a LITTLE more realistic.

Replace the anything over Purchase DC 15 always will cause you to loose 1 wealth to: Anything over 15 *OR* costing at least half your Wealth bonus (whichever is higer) will cause an automatic loss of 1 wealth point.

Example: Russ the computer wiz has a snazzy job & a wealth bonus of 24. Since 1/2 his W/B is 12, then the ruling is anything cosint him 15 + will cost him 1 wealth minimum.
Now we have Bill, THE computer GURU with a wealth bonus of 60. 1/2 his wealth bonus is 30. Thus only things with a Wealth DC of 30 or more will automatically reduce his W/B.

This still breaks down a bit on the high end but it can carry through farther up the DC chart before it starts to break down.

ie: Sultan w/ a wealth bonus of 500: could buy unlimited DC 240 and never suffer, That's still broken but you won't run into that every day (or month, or year, or probably decade)

Slingbld~

Just a quick update so to speak. People mentioned that the system I created could break down higher up on the scale. This is still true, however has anyone thought just how much money a wealth bonus of 500 would be??
Here is an expansion to the wealth chart on page 204 of the D20 Modern Book.
51 - 15 Million Dollars
52 - 20
53 - 27.5
54 - 35
55 - 50
56 - 65
57 - 90
58 - 120
59 - 150
60 - 200
61 - 275
62 - 350
63 - 500
64 - 650
65 - 900
66 - 1.2 Billion Dollars
67 - 1.5
68 - 2
69 - 2.75
70 - 3.5
71 - 5
72 - 6.5
73 - 9
74 - 12
75 - 15
76 - 20
77 - 27.5
78 - 35
79 - 50
80 - 65
81 - 90
82 - 120
83 - 150
84 - 200
85 - 275
86 - 350
87 - 500
88 - 650
89 - 900
90 - 1.2 TRILLION (Yes TRILLION) Dollars
91 - 1.5
92 - 2
93 - 2.75
94 - 3.5
95 - 5
96 - 6.5
97 - 9
98 - 12
99 - 15
100 - 20


With this, I'd place Bill Gates of Microsoft at about a wealth score of 75 - 76.
A wealth score of 100 would be on the scale of Nations, not indeviduals. A wealth score of 500 would be more wealth than any 2-3 nations could ever hope to atain. So the Arabian Sheik would probably havve a wealth bonus of 80 & under my tweek to the system could buy any itme with a Purchase DC of 39 or less all day long. anything at 40 or more would mean an automatic -1 to his wealth score.

Hope this helps clear a few things up!!!

Slingbld~