weapon focus daggers and sorcerers

[Droogie128]

Right up until the point that WOTC closes that door....come on April Errata!

They won't errata that. They wrote a dragon article specifically encouraging it

 

[DracoSuave]

I find this unclear only because Character Builder does not agree with you. Make a rogue and pick up the feat for Parrying Dagger, add one and equip it. Go to a power where it breaks down your bonuses to hit and damage and you'll find that it's giving you the Rogue class feature +1 to hit with the Parrying Dagger. Parrying Dagger has it's own costs...it's only +2 proficiency in exchange for Defensive and it costs a feat. Beyond that it's either a bug in Character Builder OR they are both daggers.

It's neither, and it works exactly as intended.

Character Builder is not a rules reference. Moreover, even when Character Builder is 100% accurate, inferring from bonuses in Character Builder is not a rules reference.

Adventurer's Vault is.

Parrying Dagger: This narrow dagger features a specially designed guard that can deflect attacks. A rogue proficient with the parrying dagger can treat it as a dagger for the purpose of the Rogue Weapon Talent class feature.

That's why it works with Rogue Weapon Talent- It's a specific exception.

 

[BobTheNob]

They won't errata that. They wrote a dragon article specifically encouraging it

Do you mean "Sorceror Essentials" (Dragon #381), cause that mentioned the jagged weapon, but not the dagger master

 

[Nifft]

Wow, "multiclassers" is a lot nicer than the word I was going to use.

Eh, it's a one-trick pony. The trick is pretty sweet, but it's not strictly better than what you can get out of a normal Sorcerer path. You're basically throwing away a Utility and a Daily power for the crit bonus -- IMHO the Encounter power is decent for a Dex-based Sorcerer, but the other two powers are garbage.

Right up until the point that WOTC closes that door....come on April Errata!

We just had March errata which closed off the Student of Caiphon from "use" in an identical situation. IMHO we are unlikely to see an update closing off Daggermaster, since it's just not that bad.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Aulirophile]

Actually on the official CharOp forums one of the staff was asking for help designing something and he wanted a high crit range. He "couldn't say" why "some of the things posted" wouldn't work, but he explained he was playing with a set of rules that wasn't out yet. Basically the primary thing posted was Daggermaster in the post he was quoting.

 

[Kinneus]

As long as we're on the subject of daggers as implements, here's one I've wondered for a while. Say you take Sorcerous Blade Channeling, and either Dragonfrost or Acid Orb as your At-Will. Can you use Dragonfrost or Acid Orb as an opportunity attack? Or at the end of a charge?

 

[DracoSuave]

As long as we're on the subject of daggers as implements, here's one I've wondered for a while. Say you take Sorcerous Blade Channeling, and either Dragonfrost or Acid Orb as your At-Will. Can you use Dragonfrost or Acid Orb as an opportunity attack? Or at the end of a charge?

These powers replace Ranged Basic Attack.

OAs and Charges require Melee Basic Attack.

Changing the attack-type of a power does not change the rest of its text.

 

[perseus.]

This may be a n00b question, but I'm a n00b and I couldn't find the answer elsewhere so here goes...

When using a dagger as an implement such as a magic dagger +1 that does 1d6 critical damage, does the critical damage still apply to powers cast through the dagger or does it need to be a dagger attack?

Also if you can site the source it would be helpful


EDIT:

Thanks guys, that's exactly what I needed.

 

[DracoSuave]

This may be a n00b question, but I'm a n00b and I couldn't find the answer elsewhere so here goes...

When using a dagger as an implement such as a magic dagger +1 that does 1d6 critical damage, does the critical damage still apply to powers cast through the dagger or does it need to be a dagger attack?

Also if you can site the source it would be helpful

Thanks!

Powers used through the dagger -are- dagger attacks. Each and every one. But that's not a helpful answer to you.

So first, to clarify: Weapon attacks with a dagger are still powers. Even a basic melee attack is a power. Anything with a power-like stat block is a power. Any bonus you get with a dagger that does not state 'a weapon attack', even if said game element has 'Weapon' in its name (I'm looking at you Weapon Focus), applies regardless of how you use the dagger with the attack.

But I digress; what I -think- you mean to ask is:

'If I use a dagger with an implement power, does it count as attacking with the dagger for the purpose of the critical hit damage bonus?'

to which the answer is yes, it does.

 

[CovertOps]

Powers used through the dagger -are- dagger attacks. Each and every one. But that's not a helpful answer to you.

So first, to clarify: Weapon attacks with a dagger are still powers. Even a basic melee attack is a power. Anything with a power-like stat block is a power. Any bonus you get with a dagger that does not state 'a weapon attack', even if said game element has 'Weapon' in its name (I'm looking at you Weapon Focus), applies regardless of how you use the dagger with the attack.

But I digress; what I -think- you mean to ask is:

'If I use a dagger with an implement power, does it count as attacking with the dagger for the purpose of the critical hit damage bonus?'

to which the answer is yes, it does.

Direct from the March errata update:

Using a Weapon as an Implement: If you’re able to use a weapon as an implement, the weapon works like a normal implement for you, but you use neither the weapon’s proficiency bonus nor its nonmagical weapon properties with your implement powers. When you use a magic version of the weapon as an implement, you can use the magic weapon’s enhancement bonus, critical hit effects, properties, and powers. However, some magic weapons have properties and powers that are worded in such a way that they work only with weapon attacks. Also, a weapon’s range and damage die are usually irrelevant to implement powers, since such powers have their own ranges and damage expressions.