Weapon Master

[Lord Pendragon]

I currently have a PC aiming for the Jedi Weapon Master PrC (Power of the Jedi), and was looking for some opinions from people who may have already played the class.

1. How well does the Devastating Strike ability operate in game? At first I thought it seemed very strong, but the fact that it requires a full-attack action and provokes an AoO seems to make it less so. Indeed, with the way critical hits work in d20 Star Wars, a Sith Lord has a 10% or better chance of critting you on the AoO and killing you before the Devastating Strike ever goes off, and if it does go off, there's still a fair chance it will fail. But this is just conjecture from looking at the ability. How does it actually play in-game?

2. I'm considering dual-wielding. The 2 feat cost is heavy, though, so I'm also thinking of the Rapid Strikes Mastery. Do either of these paths have a clear advantage?

3. Opinions about the Weapon Master in general? Tips? Warnings?

 

[davidgeisbush]

It's munchkinny, broken, etc.

begin rant/
JWM is the most embarrassingly rediculous PrC I or any of my group have seen. I think the designers should feel rediculous for including it as written. As if Jedi need anything ELSE to make them more powerful in combat.

I can only see playing this class if you're compensating for something - and if you are, I suggest buying a corvette, it's just as humiliating, but at least you can drive it around.

/end rant

Seriously though, JWM is overpowered in my game or with my group.

I currently have a PC aiming for the Jedi Weapon Master PrC (Power of the Jedi), and was looking for some opinions from people who may have already played the class.

1. How well does the Devastating Strike ability operate in game? At first I thought it seemed very strong, but the fact that it requires a full-attack action and provokes an AoO seems to make it less so. Indeed, with the way critical hits work in d20 Star Wars, a Sith Lord has a 10% or better chance of critting you on the AoO and killing you before the Devastating Strike ever goes off, and if it does go off, there's still a fair chance it will fail. But this is just conjecture from looking at the ability. How does it actually play in-game?

2. I'm considering dual-wielding. The 2 feat cost is heavy, though, so I'm also thinking of the Rapid Strikes Mastery. Do either of these paths have a clear advantage?

3. Opinions about the Weapon Master in general? Tips? Warnings?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Davidgeisbush, though I respect your right to rant, your reply didn't help me in any way at all.

*shrug* I guess we'll see how it works out in play. It doesn't seem as overpowering as you claim. At least, not overpowering in comparison to the other characters, most of which are also Jedi.

And yes, I am compensating for something. I'm compensating for playing a bard in a concurrent campaign.

 

[DarkSoldier]

Devastating Strike is best used on foes armed with ranged weapons, because they can't make AoO's.

 

[SlimeGuru42]

Hi again,

Just to start off, I've played in a Star Wars game lasting almost two years in which the three members who were there from the very beginning reached level 18. Now, I've seen the Jedi weapon master in play. I've fought beside one who used his fists, and fought against one who dual wielded lightsabres.

...They are utterly devestating as soon as initiative is rolled. Devestating strike is not very good. Its ok, but rapid strike combined with two weapon fighting brought me to my knees in -one- round of combat that didn't even use all of her attacks. 4 for bab, 2 for improved two weapon figthing, one for rapid strike, and one for heroic surge. Each of those attacks did 6d8 damage. She wasn't a Sith, she was a fallen jedi who hadn't converted any class levels. Rapid strike is powerful, dual wielding lightsabers is even more so. Combining them makes you a horrible danger.

A character with those abilities wields a fearsome amount of destructive power. An unnceccesary amount of destructive power. Devoting oneself fully to mastery of combat is not the way of a Jedi. It's just not necessary to be able to kill 8 people in a single round of combat.

To sum it up, the Jedi Weapon Master is powerful, if you combine it with other things, you get a character who rivals the combat brokenness of those with Sith classes... And who is only one step away from being one himself. Keep that close to your heart. I know it sounds cheezey, but the path to the light doesn't involve whirling blades of death. I understand combat is sometimes unavoidable, just remember that there is a fine line that a Jedi walks.

~Derrick

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Just to start off, I've played in a Star Wars game lasting almost two years in which the three members who were there from the very beginning reached level 18. Now, I've seen the Jedi weapon master in play. I've fought beside one who used his fists, and fought against one who dual wielded lightsabres.

Interestingly enough, dual-wielding sabers is the path my PC is on as well.

...They are utterly devestating as soon as initiative is rolled. Devestating strike is not very good. Its ok, but rapid strike combined with two weapon fighting brought me to my knees in -one- round of combat that didn't even use all of her attacks. 4 for bab, 2 for improved two weapon figthing, one for rapid strike, and one for heroic surge. Each of those attacks did 6d8 damage. She wasn't a Sith, she was a fallen jedi who hadn't converted any class levels. Rapid strike is powerful, dual wielding lightsabers is even more so. Combining them makes you a horrible danger.

Hrmm. To be honest, I'd never even considered dual-wielding combined with Rapid Strike. I'd figured on either dual-wielding and picking up Devastating Strike (at least as my first Mastery), or single-wielding and picking up Rapid Strike for the extra attack. Then again, with self-buffing, even the -4 to attacks from using TWF and Rapid Strike at the same time might not be too bad...

A character with those abilities wields a fearsome amount of destructive power. An unnceccesary amount of destructive power. Devoting oneself fully to mastery of combat is not the way of a Jedi. It's just not necessary to be able to kill 8 people in a single round of combat.

I respect your opinion, and from what I've read here and on the Wizards SW boards, a lot of people agree with you, but I am not one of them.

The study of combat does not make one more likely, interested, or willing to kill somebody. Indeed, the discipline involved in a martial art can help one to control violent impulses, and order an otherwise chaotic life. While in Japan, I practiced kendo for nearly two years, and the guys I practiced with, 3rd to 6th degree black belts, were some of the nicest and kindest guys I've known.

Indeed, my PC is based on the idea that a naturally brash and impulsive individual, someone very likely to fall to the dark side, could focus on combat, and use that discipline to help him steer clear of violent impulses. Yes, that training will make him far more deadly than some of his brothers, when he does decide to ignite his lightsabers, but it does not make him more likely to ignite them in the first place. Quite the opposite.

And once a Jedi does decide that violence is necessary, the SW guidebook itself quotes a Jedi Master saying that the Jedi should aim to end the battle as quickly and decisively as possible.

To sum it up, the Jedi Weapon Master is powerful, if you combine it with other things, you get a character who rivals the combat brokenness of those with Sith classes... And who is only one step away from being one himself.

Again, I disagree with your "one step away from a Sith" comment, but I do appreciate your comments and experience on seeing the Weapon Master in action. It's helped me out a lot.

Keep that close to your heart. I know it sounds cheezey, but the path to the light doesn't involve whirling blades of death. I understand combat is sometimes unavoidable, just remember that there is a fine line that a Jedi walks.

I appreciate the warning, but my Jedi isn't in any danger of falling.