Weapons that can be used as implements and weapon focus.

[Otterscrubber]

If you have weapon focus with a weapon that can also be used as a divine implement, like a crusader weapon or holy weapon, do you also get that bonus damage when you use it as an implement for an attack power?

My DM doesn't seem to think so but it does seem to read that way from the RAW as far as I can tell.

 

[Aulirophile]

Yes.

 

[Aulirophile]

Ah, what the hell.

Heroic Tier
Benefit: Choose a specific weapon group, such as spears or heavy blades. You gain a +1 feat bonus to damage rolls with your chosen weapon group. At 11th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 21st level, it increases to +3.
Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you select this feat, choose another weapon group.

Using a Weapon as an Implement: If you’re able to use a weapon as an implement, the weapon works like a normal implement for you, but you use neither the weapon’s proficiency bonus nor its nonmagical weapon properties with your implement powers.

Does casting through a Weapliment count as attacking with it? Yes.
Is a feat bonus a mundane property of the weapon? No.
Weapon Focus works.

 

[spayne]

PHB FAQ

15. I am using a weapon as an implement, like a long sword for a Wizard of the Spiral Tower or a weapon from the staff weapon group as a Staff implement, do I gain the extra damage from feats like Weapon Focus?

Yes, you do gain this bonus to damage.
​

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Weapon Focus works.

Really, there should be an Implement Focus.

Because the way Weapon Focus works, compared to the feats like Burning Blizzard, it's just more efficient both in feats and stat points to use a staff, a spear, or a dagger as an implement and use Weapon Focus than it is to use a wand, orb, or totem.

Brad

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Really, there should be an Implement Focus.

Because the way Weapon Focus works, compared to the feats like Burning Blizzard, it's just more efficient both in feats and stat points to use a staff, a spear, or a dagger as an implement and use Weapon Focus than it is to use a wand, orb, or totem.

Brad

That's correct, IF you can get one. Depending on what class(es) you are this may be more or less difficult. Arcane casters have AIP, which can give you a wide variety of weaplements. Divine and Primal casters have no equivalent. They can use specific weapons that will function AS implements (and the Invoker has staves) but that means you're stuck with a particular enchantment.

Its also not that advantageous for some characters anyway. There are now alternatives, like superior implements too. Still, weaplements are quite popular. There's really nothing wrong with that. Some builds will go right for that stuff, some won't.

 

[DracoSuave]

Really, there should be an Implement Focus.

Because the way Weapon Focus works, compared to the feats like Burning Blizzard, it's just more efficient both in feats and stat points to use a staff, a spear, or a dagger as an implement and use Weapon Focus than it is to use a wand, orb, or totem.

Brad

Agreed.

MORE importantly, either implement focus, or the elemental types should get levels of attention comparable to how weapon groups get special feats. One feat at paragon isn't even -close- to what is necessary.

If they can't use feats to define elements, then at least have feats that make implements have their own niche other than the powers of the items themselves.

 

[Solvarn]

Errata

Yeah, basically those feats like Student of Moil or whatever are useless. I always thought they should change them to remove the "feat bonus" and just make it an unnamed bonus.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, basically those feats like Student of Moil or whatever are useless. I always thought they should change them to remove the "feat bonus" and just make it an unnamed bonus.

Didn't a few of them get errata along with the expertise feats?

 

[gnfnrf]

I think the core question here is a little more complicated that y'all are making it out to be.

As to whether a weapon which is also an implement can benefit from Weapon Fcous, that seems clear.

But with weapons like the Holy Avenger, that is not what is happening. The Holy Avenger (and other weapons of its class) says that it "can be used as a holy symbol." You could read that to mean that, when using it as a holy symbol, it is no longer a heavy blade or whatever, because a holy symbol isn't even a weapon.

I'm not sure I agree with this, frankly. I think it unduly punishes split weapon/implement classes. But it is (as far as I can tell) a valid interpretation of the rules.

--
gnfnrf