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We're All Gamers Together: Why Harassment Has To Stop

Another piece talking about the harassment of women in tabletop gaming has surfaced on the internet. At least one of the incidents related in that piece has been substantiated as being true, so I am willing to accept that there is more truth in that article. Whether gamers, or geeks in general, want to admit it or not, there are serious issues within our communities with how people act towards women, people of color, and the LGBTQI. We need to knock that off right now. Obviously, this is an opinion piece.

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Another piece talking about the harassment of women in tabletop gaming has surfaced on the internet. At least one of the incidents related in that piece has been substantiated as being true, so I am willing to accept that there is more truth in that article. Whether gamers, or geeks in general, want to admit it or not, there are serious issues within our communities with how people act towards women, people of color, and the LGBTQI. We need to knock that off right now. Obviously, this is an opinion piece.
Just as a warning, for those who might be bothered by certain sorts of content, some of the incidents that were relayed to me, the stories that were told, have jarring, uncomfortable occurrences in them. If mentions of rape and unsolicitated physical contact will bother you, you might want to skip the rest of this article. I know reading the emails and PMs from these women bothered me as they came in.

As much as what these women related bothered me, and obviously bothered them as the targets of the harassment, I felt that the fact that it was so uncomfortable was exactly the reason why this current piece needed to be written. We, as a group, need to start looking the people doing this harassment in the eye and telling them that we don’t think it is okay. We need to stop pushing these accounts into the shadows, under the rugs, and pretending that they do not exist. We need to make our communities into better places for everyone, and not just a bunch of men.

I put out a call over my various social media feeds (which was shared a lot), asking for women to share their experiences of harassment in tabletop gaming with me. Anonymity was offered to those who wanted it, and not surprisingly most respondents asked that their names be kept confidential. The reasons for them wanting to be kept anonymous were one of two. First, they were afraid of further harassment within their communities for calling out the bad behavior. They seen how women who tell men to stop get treated in small, closed communities and, for better or worse, they want to continue with their hobbies without additional harassment. The second reason was a bit scarier. Some of these women are professionals, working in tabletop gaming in a number of different capacities, who fear that publicly coming forward would negatively impact their careers within gaming.

I’ll just say that last one again, with emphasis: they were afraid that coming forward about their harassment, or the harassment that they had witnessed, would negatively impact their careers in tabletop gaming.

Because of these reasons, I will be keeping the identities of everyone who asked anonymous. Everyone who spoke with me identified themselves, I am just not identifying them.

One of the common threads through the experiences shared was rape. Most of these women had had characters raped during convention play, online games, or at events at stores. Sometimes the rapes were matter-of-factly introduced into play, others there was a titillating level of graphic detail to the assaults. One women talked about how a regular attendee at a local convention bragged of having a “rape kit” in his car for the women at the convention, and at one point he yelled at her to “find him women to sleep with.” She also talked about the organizers of the convention having a “men only camping retreat” and when she was on the board of the con the only way that she could attend was “nude and wearing a dog collar.” Another woman talked about the GM of her online game suddenly having her character knocked unconscious, taken away on a ship, and then graphically narrated raping her character. All of this occurred on voice chat while using a popular virtual tabletop site.

Another woman told me that her attempts at organizing a couple of women only games for a VTT online convention was met with such vehemence from male gamers that the games were pulled from the schedule of the convention.

People wonder why more and more people think that anti-harassment policies are needed at conventions. After all, even Gen Con has one:
Gen Con: The Best Four Days in Gaming! is dedicated to providing a harassment-free Event experience for everyone, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race, religion, or affiliation. We do not tolerate harassment of convention participants in any form. Convention participants violating these rules may be sanctioned or expelled without refund at the discretion of show management.

And an Ethics policy:

All of the following constitute grounds for expulsion from the convention without refund:
  • Violating any federal, state, or local laws, facility rules or convention policies
  • Failure to comply with the instructions of Gen Con Event Staff or security personnel
  • Using anything in a threatening or destructive manner against person or property
  • Endangering the safety of oneself or others
  • Threatening, stealing, cheating or harassing others
  • Failure to conduct oneself in a mature manner

The creators of the 13th Age RPG have anti-harassment policies for their organized play because “Nobody shows up for a game with the goal of feeling uncomfortable or unsafe, and sorry that they came. But organized play brings together many different types of people with different expectations and approaches to play. An anti-harassment policy sets ground rules that everyone can recognize and follow, resulting in better games and more fun.” In the policy they outline harassment as “Everyone has the right to a space that is safe from any type of harassment: physical, verbal, emotional, or sexual.”

Honestly, considering the experiences that have been related to me, these sorts of policies should be commonplace for conventions and organized play. I have heard that Paizo is currently drafting an anti-harassment policy for their organized play, and Ad Astra Games has one in place already.

These are some of the more overt things that women have to deal with in their tabletop gaming experiences, and doesn’t go into the more “casual” or systemic harassment and sexism that women deal with at conventions, in online play and at game stores. One of the women talked about women being a subclass in society, and it being more so in gaming communities. “It sucks for a female gamer, going into a store and having that reaction.”

Men are openly commenting on women’s body parts in a sexual manner. Sexual content is added to games because “that’s the kind of stuff that women like.” Crude sexual references and jokes are made.

I’m not saying that there is no place for sexual, or adult themes, in gaming. Just the opposite, in fact. In my personal groups I game with grownups, and we play games that can have adult material in them. We have, however, agreed that content like that is okay in advance, and most of the time we agree that players’ agency over their characters should not be railroaded by the story of the game, or the actions of the GM. There is a huge difference between making awkward sexual comments out of the blue, because you are hoping it will interest a woman gamer, and making awkward sexual comments that people expect in their game. This goes doubly so for games in public spaces, like conventions or stores.

And just because it is okay with your wife, girlfriend or the woman in your gaming group at home, that doesn’t mean that it is okay with all women. If it makes someone at the table uncomfortable, or makes them feel like they are being harassed, just don’t do it, or apologize for having done it.

And, of course, none of them are safe from accusations of being a “fake geek girl,” or being in the store to get something for their husband or boyfriend. Apparently the idea that a woman would want to buy her own dice or miniatures or rule books is alien to some gamers.

As Jon Peterson, author of Playing at the World, points out in an online essay, there have always been gender problems in tabletop gaming. But he also points out that women have been interested in tabletop gaming for a long time. But, just because something has “always been that way,” it does not mean that it has to stay that way. Even in the 1970s TSR Games employees were taken to task by fandom, and female designers, to be more respectful of women gamers and to stop using phrases like “ladygamers.” Sadly, these attitudes that were considered to be outdated back then are still being perpetuated now…in some cases by some of the same people.

My first AD&D group, back in 1979, had a woman for the GM, and about half of the group were women. Most of my groups since then have had women involved in them. We need to be better, as a community, about these things. We need to speak out when we see women being harassed, online or in person, and we need to tell the people who think that doing this is okay that it isn’t. We need to be active in making the change that creates better communities where we don’t have to worry about our friends being harassed because of their gender, or their sexual preferences, or their ethnicity. We have to convince conventions and organized play societies that having anti-harassment policies is a good thing, and enforcing them so that everyone feels welcomed and accepted is a better thing.

Guys, we have to remember that this isn’t about us. This isn’t about our perceptions of what is happening at conventions, during organized play events and in online games. We sit back, listen and ask what we need to do, rather than try to make the discussion about how it “isn’t all men.” We already know that. We need to not take the focus away from what needs to be done.

There are never going to be completely safe spaces, in gaming or outside of it. However, we can make better places where no one has to worry about their body parts being part of the table talk, or their characters being sexually violated. It is the 21st century, and we should be better about this than we are. We need to stop being quiet, stop facilitating harassment, and we need to start making better spaces for ourselves and our fellow gamers. A group, like nerds, that talk so much about being harassed in their youth for being different should really be more sensitive about harassing others. We can, as a group, be better about this, and we need to do it.
 

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I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
So you think that the only way for you and your family to be able to safely go to gen com is if me and mine can't?

That sounds crazy why can't we make it safe for all gamers? If you really be live we can't what then gives your family presadiant over mine?

The risk of getting thrown out of a con isn't a risk to anyone's "safety." At most, it's a risk to your weekend plans - no one's going to choke you or hit you or bruise you or anything.

The risk of getting harassed at a con certainly IS a risk to EVERYONE's safety - the risk of sexual assault makes something unsafe (and not just for the victims!).

Only one is a rational fear born out of what happens in the real world. The other is so rare as to be remarkable when it happens.

So to start with, these risks are not equivalent risks in terms of likelihood or in terms of consequence. If you don't take out molasses flood insurance on your house in the US, you shouldn't be worried about being tossed out of a con for an unfounded accusation - molasses floods happen more often. If you've ever broken the speed limit in a car, you're already taking a bigger safety risk than going to a con with a zero tolerance policy.

With that out of the way, you ask if we can't have an environment where nobody gets tossed out unfairly AND nobody gets harassed. The answer is no. That's not the world we actually live in (and if it is someday, maybe the topic will be worth revisiting!). Heck, the reason we HAVE zero-tolerance policies is because that plan failed.

You're free to judge that you'd rather avoid any possible con-chucking injustice, but to bring it to a personal level, the price you would pay is that someone you care about could be the victim of sexual assault more easily in that scenario than in a zero-tolerance scenario.

My calculation is to imagine the bad scenarios: I imagine how much it would suck for me personally to be chucked out of a con on the word of some angry congoblin's accusation (it would suck a lot! I would be embarassed, pissed, out a bunch of money, my weekend ruined, I would feel frustrated and unhappy). I weigh the likelihood of that outcome (it doesn't seem very likely based on the evidence so far).

I then imagine how much it would suck for me personally to have someone I care about groped or raped or even catcalled or otherwise sexually accosted at a con (that would suck SO MUCH MORE). I weigh the likelihood of that outcome (it seems entirely possible based on the evidence so far).

I then go with the thing that would suck less.

Getting chucked out of a con would be a price I'd gladly pay to reduce the chances of my wife's breasts being grabbed when she was alone in an elevator with some clever rapist.
 
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Taneras

First Post
Yes, as I've said previously, because where there is an existing situation of inequality treating people equally now, is not the best that can be done. The best that can be done is to redress existing inequality first.

No, you previously said...

Lehrbuch said:
Treating two groups of people equally within a social system which has a past that was unequal, and / or is a part of a larger social system with a past (and present) that is unequal, just leads to perpetuating the existing inequality.

You were talking about *PAST* inequalities as if that needs to factor into what we need to do today to make things equal. With regards to equality there's only one thing we need to do, treat everyone the same.

Now you're only mentioning *EXISTING* inequality. Existing inequality is fixed by stop treating people differently. When everyone is treated the same then there's no more inequality. But you already threw in a mention of past inequalities preventing treating people equal today as reaching equality - and I'm wondering why you think that.

Can you explain your previous statement? Why do you think past inequalities should factor into creating equality now? And how do they factor in? Take my example of black sufferage. How should America have handled that situation? You're claiming that making things equal now doesn't matter because of past inequalities, so clearly we needed to do more than just give blacks the right to vote. What more, beyond giving blacks the right to vote, can we do to make up for the decades of not letting them vote?

If one person is hungry and another person is well-fed, you give more food to the hungry person.

The issue here is we have enough for both people to have enough to eat a full meal. We have enough to feed them indefinitely. We aren't in short supply of equality.

Absolutely, we are talking about the problems of inappropriate behaviour. It doesn't matter what characterises the inappropriate behaviour, whether it is gender / ethnicity / whatever the problem is the behaviour of some people.

Of course, the specific context is inappropriate behaviour of some men towards women, in the gaming community. So, yes, in this case there are some men whom we must treat like socially-retarded idiots.

If the focus is on behavior alone I don't see how you're turning this into a gender issue. What do the fact that some men are "socially-retarded idiots" have to do with disallowing male only tables?

It's not because of sexism, it is because men are the majority, in the gaming community. It is inappropriate to set up circumstances whereby the majority can exclude the minority.

Rubbish, its explicitly about gender. If this really was about not allowing the majority to exclude the minority, and we're not looking at race, gender, age, sexual orientation, etc. then you'd also be against adult only tables at a convention were most people are adults. After all, its *only* about preventing the majority (adults) from excluding the minority (children and teens).

Well, I'm happy to say that you completely misunderstand. Have another think about it.

An explanation as to how I misunderstood would have went a long way.
 
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I think there's a facet missing from this discussion. That facet is that none of this is hypothetical. It's already happened.

The best example is that of the Honey Badgers, who were booted for answering a question with the presenter's approval and did so politely. But the social justice warriors deemed her harassing because she had an opposing viewpoint.

http://www.reaxxion.com/8156/honey-badgers-to-sue-calgary-expo-over-being-banned-by-anti-gamergate

Then there's the Denver Comic-con that defined shirts displaying Vivian James is "Harassment", you don't even have to say anything, if the image displeases the social justice warrior it is harassment. (Referenced in above link)

Then there's the story about the public shaming of the Magic the Gathering player, and his subsequent eviction for the heinous crime of wearing a T-Shirt that said marriage is between a man and woman. That one was reported here.

So given that we've seen clear evidence that harassment policies are being used to eject people simply for not adhering to the standards of the social justice warriors I think it is critical that clear impartial evidence is demonstrated that there actually is a problem other than "I don't want people who don't agree with me to be here". If we can obtain evidence that there is in fact an issue that originates from somewhere other than SJW's then I'm completely in support of what's being proposed.

If we cannot, then we can essentially kiss the hobby goodbye. Because the policy obviously will be used to eject those guilty of wrong-think, causing people to abandon the hobby for something with much less drama, and ultimately reduce the revenue to a point where it's no longer worth company's time to produce RPG's.

The hobby would be so better off if any piles of human excrement tied to Gamergate/Return of Kings were made to feel so unwelcome they left.
 

Dannager

First Post
If we can obtain evidence that there is in fact an issue that originates from somewhere other than SJW's then I'm completely in support of what's being proposed.


Here's the thing, Rygar - literally no one cares what you do or don't believe. This is happening whether you chip in or not. We don't require your support. At all. We're asking for it, because it would make this easier for everyone involved.

You've been shown the evidence - more than enough of it for any reasonable person. You've rejected it, because that's the sort of person you are. You will continue moving goal posts, regardless of the quality of evidence shown to you, because you don't care about what's actually happening, you aren't interested in improving things, and you're frustrated that the community overwhelmingly disagrees with you and is becoming increasingly hostile to your persistent intolerance.

If we cannot, then we can essentially kiss the hobby goodbye. Because the policy obviously will be used to eject those guilty of wrong-think, causing people to abandon the hobby for something with much less drama, and ultimately reduce the revenue to a point where it's no longer worth company's time to produce RPG's.

What world do you live in where these policies are causing fewer people to participate in the hobby? How does that delusion embed itself so deeply? Who do you think has more social pull, here? The women and minorities that a more welcoming environment would bring in, or the malicious, socially-crippled balls of impotent rage who think it's acceptable to harass women at gaming conventions?
 
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The risk of getting thrown out of a con isn't a risk to anyone's "safety." At most, it's a risk to your weekend plans - no one's going to choke you or hit you or bruise you or anything.

The risk of getting harassed at a con certainly IS a risk to EVERYONE's safety - the risk of sexual assault makes something unsafe (and not just for the victims!).

Only one of these things has a history of ever occurring. Only one is a rational fear born out of what happens in the real world.

So to start with, these risks are not equivalent risks in terms of likelihood or in terms of consequence. If you don't take out molasses flood insurance on your house in the US, you shouldn't be worried about being tossed out of a con for an unfounded accusation - molasses floods happen more often. If you've ever broken the speed limit in a car, you're already taking a bigger safety risk than going to a con with a zero tolerance policy.

With that out of the way, you ask if we can't have an environment where nobody gets tossed out unfairly AND nobody gets harassed. The answer is no. That's not the world we actually live in (and if it is someday, maybe the topic will be worth revisiting!). Heck, the reason we HAVE zero-tolerance policies is because that plan failed.

You're free to judge that you'd rather avoid any possible con-chucking injustice, but to bring it to a personal level, the price you would pay is that someone you care about could be the victim of sexual assault more easily in that scenario than in a zero-tolerance scenario.

My calculation is to imagine the bad scenarios: I imagine how much it would suck for me personally to be chucked out of a con on the word of some angry congoblin's accusation (it would suck a lot! I would be embarassed, pissed, out a bunch of money, my weekend ruined, I would feel frustrated and unhappy). I weigh the likelihood of that outcome (it doesn't seem very likely based on the evidence so far).

I then imagine how much it would suck for me personally to have someone I care about groped or raped or even catcalled or otherwise sexually accosted at a con (that would suck SO MUCH MORE). I weigh the likelihood of that outcome (it seems entirely possible based on the evidence so far).

I then go with the thing that would suck less.

Getting chucked out of a con would be a price I'd gladly pay to reduce the chances of my wife's breasts being grabbed when she was alone in an elevator with some clever rapist.

You are getting me made now...I have not advocated anything but 0 tolernnece for physical violence of any kind...it is words we disagree on. And a post or two above you are actually examples of being thrown out wrongly and you ignore them.

Physical assult sex or otherwise is a crime and should not be allowed.

Saying somthjgn that you do not mean to offend but does isn't even on the same scale. There is no reason a picture of some guy I never heard of on someone's shirt needs to be treated like grabing your wife so stop pretending argueing for one is swaying the other is aok
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Since I trust Umbria I will assume his numbers are true.

I site the source, and note that it is informal. You don't have to trust me, you may read it and give it what weight you find appropriate.

Why don't we make a huge stink and push for more police action...

As has been mentioned several times in these threads - such incidents are *extremely* difficult to prosecute. "Call the cops," does not work unless you have evidence beyond report by an individual. If he's not caught on camera, or doesn't leave behind bodily fluids, you probably can't successfully put the cops on such a person. And never mind the fact that the convention attendee victim is apt to be at home across the country in a couple of days, and not in a good position to support a case that'll come to trial probably months later.

This is why it becomes the realm of cultural pressure, and why the convention has to have policies that have lower standards of proof than a court. The court is simply not designed to handle this problem well, so we must ind other solutions.
 

Taneras

First Post
The hobby would be so better off if any piles of human excrement tied to Gamergate/Return of Kings were made to feel so unwelcome they left.

I'd make a distinction there, there were enough honest people who didn't resort to harassment within Gamergate to garner an exception.
 

The hobby would be so better off if any piles of human excrement tied to Gamergate/Return of Kings were made to feel so unwelcome they left.

Why would any care about the third LotR movie or the stupid video game thing and why would we not want all gamers feeling welcome
 

I site the source, and note that it is informal. You don't have to trust me, you may read it and give it what weight you find appropriate.

9

As has been mentioned several times in these threads - such incidents are *extremely* difficult to prosecute. "Call the cops," does not work unless you have evidence beyond report by an individual. If he's not caught on camera, or doesn't leave behind bodily fluids, you probably can't successfully put the cops on such a person. And never mind the fact that the convention attendee victim is apt to be at home across the country in a couple of days, and not in a good position to support a case that'll come to trial probably months later.

This is why it becomes the realm of cultural pressure, and why the convention has to have policies that have lower standards of proof than a court. The court is simply not designed to handle this problem well, so we must ind other solutions.
Its the cops job to find out who did it they can't all be as inept as my local ones...
 

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