D&D 5E What Alignment Am I?

[vostyg]

I read your additional exposition, but I am still unclear (sticks on acting hat) of the character's motivation.

Why is this his job? Why does he rough up and kill the baddies? Why is he protecting the innocent? Is it a personal reason (some gangster killed his parents in a dark alley one night *ahem*)? Is it something else (he belongs to the ancient and venerated order of Dalton, and follows the rules: One, never underestimate your opponent. Expect the unexpected. Two, take it outside. Never start anything inside the bar unless it's absolutely necessary. And three, be nice.)? Is he seeking justice or vengeance?

If you understand that, I think you'll be able to answer your own questions.

The character was once a blacksmith dwelling in a backwoods village in Rashemen with his wife and two young sons. He thought that he had everything he wanted or needed out of life, and he would have been content to continue this humble existence had fate not intervened. After a hard day's work at the anvil, he returned home late one evening to find that his wife and boys had been cruelly savaged by a roving werewolf. Something snapped inside of him. He managed to track the werewolf down and trap it inside a barn, which he proceeded to set ablaze, thereby putting an end to the creature's rampage. With his family dead, and nothing left to keep him rooted to his old life, he took up the sword and armor which he had crafted for himself, and embarked on a new life as a champion of the weak and helpless, motivated by the memory of his wife and sons.

 

[Celebrim]

I read your additional exposition, but I am still unclear (sticks on acting hat) of the character's motivation.

A good post, but my lack of complete clarity is centered around something else at the moment.

We are starting to move from a character that seems more motivated by seeing that lawbreakers punished ("Chaos must be opposed!") to someone more motivated by caring for individuals ("Wrongs must be righted!"), though as you point out even that is not yet completely clear.

But for me the biggest lack of clarity is what I see as an internal contradiction in the character. The main reason I didn't post about it in my first response, is I'm ok with mortals having the sort of internal contradiction he's setting up in this description, because working out internal contradictions and deciding what a character believes most makes for good role-play.

And that internal contradiction is summed up in this sentence: "He tends to categorize people as either villains, victims, or neither, based on their behavior." The problem with that sentence is categorizing people is Lawful behavior. Chaotics tends to see things as being messier than that and categorization as inherently wrong, and someone that presented a CG vigilante type would almost certainly provoke me as a DM to write a note behind my DM's screen - "Test the character's moral outlook by confronting them with things that don't neatly fit into their three categories - villains that also do good for the community, heroes with tragic flaws, likeable innocents engaged in patterns of behavior that are causing massive indirect harm." We could get a real sense of whether the character was Chaotic or Lawful (or maybe more to the point, which direction or belief their character was evolving toward) by how they responded to this fuzzy hard to categorize situations. If they decided to implement a custom solution on the basis of the particular situation and their own judgment, then that suggests strong (or stronger) Chaotic impulses. If they decided that painful as it may be, they have to follows the standards they've set for how you treat members of the category, then that suggests stronger Lawful impulses. So I wouldn't be surprised in play to see a CG character that began with the belief, "I can categorize people.", to either drop that belief as incompatible with their more fundamental beliefs, or evolve toward neutrality or even law.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Celebrim]

Neutral good. That would be my choice as a descriptor.

As a DM, I'd be reasonably happy with that as a starting description of this character, but I'd be interested to see how it tested. In particular, the Justice/Vengeance problem you raised still seems pertinent. When one of the two has to be sacrificed, which one goes? What would he do for example with a werewolf that turns out to be a 14 year old survivor of an attack, who when they are in their right mind very much hates what they've become or are becoming? What does mercy and justice demand then? The LE version of this character doesn't even agonize about it. The NE good one is horrified and conflicted.

 

[Celebrim]

Something snapped inside of him. He managed to track the werewolf down and trap it inside a barn, which he proceeded to set ablaze, thereby putting an end to the creature's rampage. With his family dead, and nothing left to keep him rooted to his old life, he took up the sword and armor which he had crafted for himself, and embarked on a new life as a champion of the weak and helpless, motivated by the memory of his wife and sons.

More so than lowkey13 (whose analysis of this I nonetheless respect), this part of the story suggests strong Chaotic, even to the point of archetypal Chaotic.

1) Something snaps inside, suggesting he is primarily motivated internally and by his feelings, rather than by reflection and council.
2) He takes the burden on himself. He didn't come to this life because someone chose him for it.
3) Iconically as a symbol of that, he has forged his own weapons and armor. That is extremely powerful symbolism, the chaotic equivalent of receiving a public Ordination or Confirmation from a powerful being, denoting the blacksmith as their chosen champion. In my campaign, something like that would create an immediate note behind my DM screen - "Nascent legacy items. Has a god of Chaotic Good blessed this act, or has the PC inadvertently bound a part of his soul to the items? Work this into the plot."

So, I'd tend to accept this as strongly trending toward CG, with some caveats that there is still plenty of unworked out potential contradictions and conflicts.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I am relatively new to D&D, and I am a little bit confused about where my new character falls on the alignment axes. He is driven by his own internal compass to punish wrongdoers and to protect the innocent, but he cares very little about the law. He also tends to view things in black and white, and can be pretty ruthless in his pursuit of justice.

• The fact that he cares little about the law suggests that he is probably not lawful, though his obsessive pursuit of justice at all costs might suggest otherwise.
• The fact that he is driven to punish wrongdoers and protect the innocent suggests he is good, but his willingness to take ruthless measures in his pursuit of justice might suggest otherwise.

I know that alignment is intended to serve as a simple guideline, and perhaps this character blurs the lines, but I'm curious to see what the Enworld veterans have to say on the matter.

Thanks in advance!

EDIT - Here is some additional exposition that I added in a subsequent post which might help to clarify a few things:

As I'm thinking about it, he doesn't really follow an external code at all, just his own simple sense of right and wrong. This generally involves protecting the helpless and innocent from those who would prey on them. He tends to categorize people as either villains, victims, or neither, based on their behavior. He is not above roughing someone up whom he categorizes as a villain in order to get information, and he has no compunctions about killing a serious villain outright if only to prevent that person from victimizing others in the future. He takes no particular joy in this. To him, it's just an unsavory but necessary part of his job. He evaluates each person on his or her own merits, and he doesn't waste his time on petty wrongdoers, focusing instead on serious villains.

EDIT - Yet more exposition from a subsequent post:

The character was once a blacksmith living in a backwoods village in Rashemen with his wife and two young sons. He thought that he had everything he wanted or needed out of life, and he would have been content to continue this humble existence had fate not intervened. After a hard day's work at the anvil, he returned home only to find that his wife and boys had been cruelly butchered by a roving werewolf. Something snapped inside of him. He managed to track the werewolf down and trap it inside a barn, which he proceeded to set ablaze, thereby putting an end to the creature's rampage. With his family dead, and nothing left to keep him rooted to his old life, he took up the sword and armor which he had crafted for himself, and embarked on a new life as a champion of the weak and helpless, motivated by the memory of his wife and sons.

The fact that he is willing to make significant personal sacrifices to champion the weak and helpless marks him as Good in my eyes. It's his only outstanding characteristic, therefore Neutral Good.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Maxperson]

I am relatively new to D&D, and I am a little bit confused about where my new character falls on the alignment axes. He is driven by his own internal compass to punish wrongdoers and to protect the innocent, but he cares very little about the law. He also tends to view things in black and white, and can be pretty ruthless in his pursuit of justice.

You don't need to care about the law to be lawful. Being driven by an internal compass to punish wrongdoers and protect the innocent is lawful, as is viewing things in black and white. Ruthless in pursuit of justice would be neutral.

That paragraph shows LN.

I know that alignment is intended to serve as a simple guideline, and perhaps this character blurs the lines, but I'm curious to see what the Enworld veterans have to say on the matter.

They do more than blur the lines. There really are no lines. No complex individual can be pinned into one alignment. They will fit multiple alignments.

Take Batman, the poster child for alignment problems. Looking at his behaviors and the alignments, he is LG, CG, NG, LN and sometimes evil.

What I think you should do is draw a horizontal line through alignment to simulate it flat lining. Then just play your character how you envision it and alignment be damned.

 

[vostyg]

Thanks everyone! It's great to see people converging on a consensus. This was really educational for me, and I appreciate your inputs.

 

[Maxperson]

Awesome!

Okay, with everything you told me, if I had created the character, then-

On the LNC axis-
Definitely not lawful. I would lean toward neutral.

See, anyone who is driven to do anything has a huge lawful streak. That sort of focused drive is not chaotic at all, even if the result seems to be something in the chaotic end of the spectrum.