What alignment are the cops on The Shield?

[Mark Plemmons]

And let's not forget that Vic's in the middle of a scale. Shane Vendrell, if anything, is a more corrupt and less apologetic dirty cop, while the late, lamented Lemansky was a better guy who tries rationalizing the corners he cuts even more than Vic ever does.

So, where would you put all these guys on the D&D nine-point alignment grid and why? (And yes, they're probably as bad a fit as anyone is.)

The first thing that popped into my head was "chaotic lawful".

 

[Mark Plemmons]

Welcome to Geeksville! Sure, I'll give it a try:

Vic: Lawful Evil - While he does break the law, his purpose is a lawful one, to secure order in society and the benefit of the deserving (esp. himself and family, but also certain innocents). The happiness and rights of others are not much of a factor to him.

Shane: Neutral Evil - He uses the law when it suits him and ignores it otherwise. His purpose is selfish in nature, disregarding the happiness and rights of others.

Lem: Neutral Good - He supports the law when he perceives it to be for the good, but will disregard it otherwise. He places the happiness and rights of others above considerations of abstract purpose.

These all sound about right good to me. Though (POSSIBLE SPOILER if you missed some of last season(highlight to see): Lem is dead, so he doesn't really have an alignment anymore).

Some other guesses.

Aceveda: Lawful Neutral
Dutch: Lawful Neutral with Good tendencies
Wyms: Lawful Good

 

[hamishspence]

Champions of Ruin has insights here:

Not all evil guys are Eeeevil. Some, like maybe Vic, have much good intentions and try to do good. But their sheer ruthlessness keeps them in the evil alignment category.

Jack Bauer is another of the characters teetering on the Evil/Neutral border.

 

[Storm Raven]

First of all, I never said he was some kind of shining knight. If you'll read my earlier post, I pegged him at Chaotic Neutral.

And that peg is just ridiculous. Vic is evil, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Secondly, Aceveda didn't want to clean up the streets, he wanted to advance his own political ambitions.

And? His desires coincided with doing something to get dirty cops off the streets. I also didn't notice Aceveda shooting any other police officers, framing innocent people and killing them, allowing drug dealers to do business as long as they paid him off in protection money, letting gang leaders kill each other and covering it up and other wise making life more of a nightmare than it already is in Farmington. Vic did all of these things, and more.

Vic has done more to "clean up the streets" than any other character on that show. Because he makes mistakes doesn't negate that fact.

You clearly haven't been watching the show very carefully. I'm not sure how letting drug dealers and gangs operate so long as they pay him protection money does much to clean up the streets. I'm certain that the innocent people Vic has killed, or that his tolerance of gang violence has caused to be killed feel real good about him working the streets. Vic has done very little to "clean up the streets" and a whole lot to just make sure that the guys who pay him off get to run them.

Would I want Vic working in my town? Hell yes. If it were my little girl some sick pedophille had locked away in a secret room, and it took a Vic Mackey type to get the info, I wouldn't bat an eye.

Abd if Vic decided he needed to frame someone for a crime he committed and you were in his crosshairs? Would you feel so good about him then? If the drug dealers could operate on your street with impunity because they paid him off, would that be hunky dory with you? How about if the gang that could run your neighborhood decided to hit you up for protection money, and could do so because Vic let them do it, that would be fine with you too huh? Just because he is the protagonist of the show doesn't mean he isn't a vile monster.

 

[Twowolves]

And? His desires coincided with doing something to get dirty cops off the streets. I also didn't notice Aceveda shooting any other police officers, framing innocent people and killing them, allowing drug dealers to do business as long as they paid him off in protection money, letting gang leaders kill each other and covering it up and other wise making life more of a nightmare than it already is in Farmington. Vic did all of these things, and more.

Maybe you should go back and pay a little closer attention to Aceveda and what he has done. He arranged for the guy who molested him to get killed in prison. Let me make that explicitly clear to you: he worked a deal with the absolute worst crime lord in Farmington to kill a guy who had some dirt on Aceveda. This guy who buys and sells cops is behind bars only because Vic outsmarted him, and Aceveda is getting him deals with the feds to get him out of jail, just to kill the guy who molested him. Sound any nicer a guy than Vic yet? And this is all AFTER Aceveda shot and killed the other witness to his humiliation. Oh, and after he cheated on his wife with a hooker that let him beat her.

You clearly haven't been watching the show very carefully. I'm not sure how letting drug dealers and gangs operate so long as they pay him protection money does much to clean up the streets. I'm certain that the innocent people Vic has killed, or that his tolerance of gang violence has caused to be killed feel real good about him working the streets. Vic has done very little to "clean up the streets" and a whole lot to just make sure that the guys who pay him off get to run them.

Maybe you should spend less time assuming what I know and what I don't, and more time actually watching the show. The only drug dealers he lets operate are the ones who are informants for him, ones he can control. Which means A) no selling to kids and B) no harrassing the locals. And as far as I can tell, all the truely "innocent" people on the streets love Vic and the work he does. He is not for sale, or maybe you missed the episode where he made that abundantly clear? Were he just another dirty cop, he'd be for sale to the highest bidder. In season 4, when the Strike Team is back on the streets, he goes and picks out a drug dealer to intimidate into being his informant. Not to shake down for money, but to get him plugged back in to the word on the street.

Abd if Vic decided he needed to frame someone for a crime he committed and you were in his crosshairs? Would you feel so good about him then? If the drug dealers could operate on your street with impunity because they paid him off, would that be hunky dory with you? How about if the gang that could run your neighborhood decided to hit you up for protection money, and could do so because Vic let them do it, that would be fine with you too huh? Just because he is the protagonist of the show doesn't mean he isn't a vile monster.

First of all, I wouldn't ever BE in his crosshairs. He has never framed someone who wasn't already guilty of something. I keep my nose clean, I don't get involved in that world, I wouldn't even be a blip on Vic's radar. Patrol units are for keeping the gangs off the street corners, the Strike Team is for busting the big bosses that enable it to happen.

If Vic were the vile monster you claim he is, there wouldn't be a show. No one would watch a show about that. If Vic were squeaky clean, no one would watch a show about that either. He is dirty, but still tries to do what he thinks is right. If he were as bad as some in this thread make him out to be, why are the viewers pulling for him more times than they are booing him?

 

[ShinHakkaider]

If he were as bad as some in this thread make him out to be, why are the viewers pulling for him more times than they are booing him?

Personally I'm still watching the show to watch his life fall apart and to eventually watch him pay for his many, many crimes. If the show ends with him getting away scott free and not dead or in jail I'll be disappointed. I'm not pulling for him, but it is interesting to watch how he constantly keeps dodging the noose.

For the record, I list Vic as neutral evil. I think that he's waaaaaaay more selfish that some of the other people on this thread peg him to be. I don't think that he cares about ANYONE on the street, they are just a means to an end for him. He has a weak spot for women that would explain his protectiveness of his CI's , but that's it.

I think he honestly cares about his family but is very shortsighted when it comes to what would be best for them. I think the Strike Team is his family as well but is not really hip to what a snake Shane is (although he mignt be starting to suspect). If there's anyone I want to see catch a bad one more than Vic it's Shane, ESPECIALLY for what he did to Lem.

 

[boredgremlin]

Come on. Acaveda knowlingly aided and abbetted vic over several seasons when it suited his political ends. To paint him as some kind of avenging reformer "cleaning up the precinct" is rediculous. Acaveda knew exactly what was going on and not only didnt he do anything to stop it throughout most of the show, he actively went out of his way to make sure Vic found out about cases that needed his kind of police work and fed him information.

When it comes to dealers and gangs, well they are a fact of life of those neighborhoods and nothing is ever going to get rid of them. Society has had problems with gangs of uneducated lower classes propogating crime since the roman empire.
The best society has ever managed to do is keep them under some level of control so that thier violence is mainly directed each other and the people who seek thier goods and services. it might not be the idealists solution but it is the only one that has ever had any serious affect on gang violence.

Mackey was being a realist and making sure the more damaging effects of thier presence were directed at each other and not innocents. That doesnt make his approach lawful, but not trying to ride in like the lone ranger and round up all the bad guys at once (and undoudtedly scratching his head in wonder when a whole new batch of uneducated, easy money seeking, drug peddling scum appeared the next week to take thier place) doesnt make you evil either.

I remember reading a saying once. I think it was Machiavelli, that went "you cant fight evil standing on a mountain top, you have to get down in the pit with it and get yourself dirty". Thats exactly what the strike team did and i think the end results while bad for some were good for most. What else can you reasonably shoot for in that line of work?