What!?! All dragons can't be red. The books say so.

[JacktheRabbit]

Tried to sum things up in the title. I am designing a campaign and plan on lots of small changes to the norm. One is monitor descriptions. In this world dragons are very rare, it's quite the urban worked and few propel see them. The change will be s ale color. All dragons will have a reddish grey scale tone. What type of dragon will be determined by stats, eyes, and very subtle coloring on the tips of wings, claws, etc.

My concern is players whining that I am making unfair changes. My answer bring that at the start of the campaign I told them their p,ayers don't know what a Monster Manual is so plucking knowledge from there might as well be cheating.

Opinions?

 

[Moleculo]

Have you removed monster lore knowledge checks as a way of identifying a creature? It sounds like you're making this change as a way to defeat metagaming; it seems okay as long as you don't remove valid in-game ways of figuring things out.

 

[Morrus]

So you're just changing the fluff text? I don't see a problem with that.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Have you removed monster lore knowledge checks as a way of identifying a creature? It sounds like you're making this change as a way to defeat metagaming; it seems okay as long as you don't remove valid in-game ways of figuring things out.

I am not removing the checks. I do double the DC for on the spot info. The DC as listed in e book is for someone with the skill studying in a library or other setting where they can do research.

This fact will not be hidden. I will also be ,itigatable if a player wants the invest in the purchase of tomes of knowledge to bring with them. It won't make in combat checks easier, but will allow research outs ode of a library.

 

[gamerprinter]

Back in 2e days in the Birthright campaign setting, there was only one kind of dragon, the Cerilian Dragon. It was basically a 'red' dragon, but not necessarily 'red'. Though color had nothing to do with its alignment nor abilities, as each one was unique.

I've always thought it as all dragons are born neutral, and over the course of their lives, they develop a direction in alignment. Thus when meeting a dragon face to face, its like meeting an NPC human face to face. What skills does he have and what's his alignment. You don't know. And won't discover until you start interacting with that person/being.

I've always hated, "I see a dragon!"
"What color is it?"... meh.

GP

 

[kitsune9]

You can state in your campaign primer some player knowledge vs. character knowledge so that players who may (in the offchance) want to create monster-lore type characters will at least have some fore knowledge dragons are different.

It seems you have a cosmetic change going on there for your dragons, but why stop there? For example, one question I have is why are the dragons rare? Were they rare to begin with or were they plentiful, but territorial fighting, a civil war, magic, etc. nearly wiped them out? Or has the lesser races gotten really effective at hunting and killing them?

My own personal take is that if I'll make a creature truly rare, then I'm likely to have it truly powerful. For example, I could have the PC's encounter one dragon in the entire campaign, but it will be a fight and encounter that they will not forget (could even be the campaign climactic battle).

 

[Shades of Green]

I prefer Dragons rare and very, very powerful. In myth they're epic foes fit for heroes to fight, not cannon-fodder. Alternatively, using an animistic cosmology, each Dragon would be a major spirit - a "God" - in his own right. Mighty heroes can still defeat him, but it shouldn't be easy, and there should be a small number of Dragons in the setting, each a unique NPC (and some good or neutral).

 

[CleverNickName]

In my last few campaigns, all dragons are gray and they have the non-magical ability to blend into their surroundings like a chameleon or tree frog. This gives the dragon a +8 racial bonus to Hide checks, but that's really the only mechanic that changes. Mostly, it keeps the party from being able to guess what breath weapon a dragon might use, based on the color of its scales.

 

[The Bull]

Hey Doc

Not sure you still need the advice still. But I love your approach.

I myself use to prevent metagamers and rulelawyers my own rule-set and pilfer from whichever setting I like to create a unique blend to the pleasure of my players, who really love to explore something unique and never before seen.

They quickly learned that my orcs aren't the cannon-fodder they were used to from other games - and now the word orc, strikes fear in their hearts as it should have had from the beginning.

As to lore-based characters, they have a fair chance to gain and have this knowledge - at least what has been transmitted trough the ages.

Here I found the approach of the Iron Kingdoms especially useful. They distinguish four levels of lore (Monsternomicon Vol. 1 page 208):

Common lore (about a subject/monster/place) is easy to find. This can be the name of a creature, what it is supposed to look like, or even peculations on its origin. Typically this comes in the form of a tall tale told by an old salt or a poorly written passage in an ancient bestiary. Common lore is usually just enough to give a rough idea of what adventurers may potentially face. A rare creature might not have any Common lore.

Uncommon bits of lore tend to be more specific and helpful. Examples are vague ideas of what sorts of powers a creature may possess, weaknesses it might have, or even the vagaries of where it might lair. Usually this lore comes in some concrete form. Old maps from the attics of dead adventurers or tomes and books written by half-mad scribes are good sources for this sort of lore. An extremely rare creature might not have any Common or Uncommon lore.

The realm of Rare lore is the province of the damned. This information almost always comes from firsthand encounters, survivors of attacks, or observations made by hidden spies. Infernal tomes of summoning, a necromancer’s notebook, a rogue apprentice’s betrayal — these can all grant Rare lore. This sort of information is specific and often directly useful. The specific powers of a creature or how to counter a special attack it makes are types of Rare lore that might save an adventurer’s bacon.

Obscure lore comes in many forms, such as fevered scrawling found on asylum walls, dredged up secrets from ancient writings, and the perturbing observations of otherworldly diagrams. Obscure lore isn’t always directly helpful — the problem with myths and ancient texts is that they often need to be interpreted. Still, Obscure lore can reveal the origins of a creature or its fatal flaws if the researcher is diligent.

This concept has proven very useful for my sort of campaigns and I hope it will help you too.

Let the dice roll and create the sort of adventure you and your players love most!

Good Gaming to you all!
The Bull

 

[GhostBear]

In my games, color means very little. What I have preferred to do is having all dragons start out as the standard fantasy dragon. You have teeth and claws, you breathe fire, all that good stuff. But all dragons practice magic, and some of them are able to bend the capability of their fire to do something else entirely.

To some dragons this is seen as a heretical move, something akin to spitting in the face of your ancestors and of the very thing that defines what you are. Ice-breathing dragons in particular draw severe ire from other dragons.

So, players may know what to expect in general, but there's the possibility of being surprised as well.

My concern is players whining that I am making unfair changes.

I wouldn't say that the changes are unfair at all. They're told up front that the Monster's Manual won't help them, so they should pay attention to the hints given in the game instead. That's how things should be anyway. It's the unknown that makes the game exciting, not "Oh, this creature has X HP, Y AC, and can cast Z at will."