D&D 4E What archetypes does 4E do better?

[PrecociousApprentice]

So with all this talk about simulation and whether 4E gets it right accordng to traditional D&D tropes, I was wondering if 4E can do any other fantasy styles better now. I always had a hard time eleminating all the D&Disms out of my games when I was trying to emulate (not quite simulate) other fantasy worlds or literature serieses. I never really liked all of the D&Disms intruding on my emulation of other styles of fantasy. I beleive it has been stated that low magic can be more easily done in 4E, but what about other styles of magic.

I can see doing the Magic the Gathering style really easily, and I don't think that this is a bad thing. Many people don't agree with me, but it seems that this style is only a possibility, and not necessarily requirement. (I could have just derailed my own thread here. I hope not.) The loss of Vancian magic helps this alot.

I think that the Wheel of Time could be done relatively easily with 4E. A few simple tweaks are needed, but the majority of the WoT archetypes could be created in 4E, without any deal breaking loss of beleivability. The loss of Vancian magic also helps here. The inclusion of Powers can help in any house ruling necessary, as in the case of Blademasters, taveren, and wolfbrothers.

Even D&D based literature seems like it could be easier to emulate. I don't remember Raistlin ever needing to stop to memorize spells. Are there D&D based literature that includes specifically any reference to Vancian style memorization?

Anyway, I was hoping to get a tread started to discuss how 4E might enable a non-D&Dism style campaign, without redesign.

Talk amoungst yourselves.

 

[Xethreau]

NVM, misread title.

 

[fafhrd]

Any type of hero that doesn't take naps.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Actually, Dragonlance wizards definitely DO need to memorize spells daily. It's built into the setting pretty specifically, at least for whatever age the early Weis/Hickman books took place in. (Multiclass wizards were also a no-go.) Same for most other TSR/WotC D&D books - they're designed specifically to mimic the game system, so "D&Disms" abound. But that doesn't mean the new flexibility isn't welcome!

I'd say that beyond the death of Vancian spellcasting, the biggest advantage of 4e in this regard is actually the Warlord, which allows you to have tactically effective groups that don't rely on divine magic. Now, if you wanted to set a campaign before the return of the gods in Dragonlance, you could do so without it being incredibly inconvenient.

 

[fafhrd]

Heh. I seem to recall a scene where Raistlin is up against Takhisis and all he has left is a detect thoughts.

 

[malraux]

I'm reading the Malazan series right now. The take on magic is different from 4e, but mechanically, the mages fit better with a primarily non-vancian mechanic. Certainly if I were to attempt to model it, I'd go with 4e over 3e.

 

[Wormwood]

Any type of hero that doesn't take naps.

Dammit, you almost made me spill beer.

Beer.

 

[Stalker0]

The guardian. The person who strives forward to protect his friends. 3e did not do this well at all until the knight class and the devoted defender prc.

With the 4e fighter, you can play this archetype right out of the box.

 

[Campbell]

• Ninjae
• Wizards that don't carry around bags of bat dodo
• Inspiring Martial Types
• Dark Magicians
• John Maclane
• Warriors with interpersonal skills.
• Archers who aren't organic machine guns.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

(Multiclass wizards were also a no-go.)

I'm pretty sure that one of the leaders of the White Robes (post War of the Lance) was a dual class fighter-mage.