Peraion Graufalke
First Post
Just hinting at why the Sorcerer doesn't appear on my list. I sure wish there was an amazing paragon path for them. Storm Sorcerers can be downright scary in the heroic tier, IME.
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What are the best classes for each role in 4th edition?
- Thread starter MadMaxim
- Start date
Just hinting at why the Sorcerer doesn't appear on my list. I sure wish there was an amazing paragon path for them. Storm Sorcerers can be downright scary in the heroic tier, IME.
Argyle King
Legend
My opinion?
Defender: Fighter
Leader: Warlord - I personally like the charisma based build from PHB1.
Striker: While I want to say Ranger, I think I have to go with Barbarian here. It's pretty easy to abuse Howling Strike and charging to get somewhat ridiculous amounts of damage with just at-will powers.
Controller: Honestly, I am not sure. Most of the time, the group I'm with goes without a controller, and we don't notice. You could probably double up on one of the other roles with something like a sorcerer and have more damage output due to the second striker while still having enough control to get by. If you find you need more, two multiclass feats to pick up an out of class power that gives control would probably do; one of the wall spells is usually good for this since you don't need to worry about hitting.
Defender: Fighter
Leader: Warlord - I personally like the charisma based build from PHB1.
Striker: While I want to say Ranger, I think I have to go with Barbarian here. It's pretty easy to abuse Howling Strike and charging to get somewhat ridiculous amounts of damage with just at-will powers.
Controller: Honestly, I am not sure. Most of the time, the group I'm with goes without a controller, and we don't notice. You could probably double up on one of the other roles with something like a sorcerer and have more damage output due to the second striker while still having enough control to get by. If you find you need more, two multiclass feats to pick up an out of class power that gives control would probably do; one of the wall spells is usually good for this since you don't need to worry about hitting.
Neonchameleon
Legend
Defender: Fighter. No question. Wardens are the toughest, paladins are pretty good
Leader: Depends on your striker. If you have one with good basic attacks, the Warlord straight down the line. The rest of the time it's closer with the bard and the cleric also being contenders. And the ardent being broken in paragon but not incredibly so. On the low side, runepriests are fiddly and annoying and not that strong.
Striker: Anything martial. Ranger, thief, scout, slayer, rogue. (Not assassin). Slayer + Warlord or Thief + Warlord is scary. On the low side, Warlocks are challenging, Vampires just don't cut it, and assassins are second rate thieves.
Controller: Paragon Psions are broken. Not good, broken. Augment 2 heroic powers are just too good to be allowed to spam. Wizards are the best otherwise with invokers in second and hunters making excellent single target controllers for solo-hunting, and otherwise being more strikers than controllers (the human Hunter with Twin Strike isn't quite as good a striker as the archer ranger, but is still top bracket just from a twin strike with bells and whistles). On the low side - most seekers should instead be hunters, and the rest probably rangers.
Leader: Depends on your striker. If you have one with good basic attacks, the Warlord straight down the line. The rest of the time it's closer with the bard and the cleric also being contenders. And the ardent being broken in paragon but not incredibly so. On the low side, runepriests are fiddly and annoying and not that strong.
Striker: Anything martial. Ranger, thief, scout, slayer, rogue. (Not assassin). Slayer + Warlord or Thief + Warlord is scary. On the low side, Warlocks are challenging, Vampires just don't cut it, and assassins are second rate thieves.
Controller: Paragon Psions are broken. Not good, broken. Augment 2 heroic powers are just too good to be allowed to spam. Wizards are the best otherwise with invokers in second and hunters making excellent single target controllers for solo-hunting, and otherwise being more strikers than controllers (the human Hunter with Twin Strike isn't quite as good a striker as the archer ranger, but is still top bracket just from a twin strike with bells and whistles). On the low side - most seekers should instead be hunters, and the rest probably rangers.
I don't disagree with what is generally being said, but the biggest thing is that the choice of classes should not be in isolation. If you're really trying to optimize you need to build a party as a group, looking at the interactions between characters.
Very little point being a Warlord who grants basic attacks if you have an Avenger and Rogue as strikers. Conversely a warlord would work very well with a Barbarian and Thief as strikers.
Also, when you talk of optimization, you're talking about combat; if the campaign has more out-of-combat action, perhaps other classes can be more useful?
Very little point being a Warlord who grants basic attacks if you have an Avenger and Rogue as strikers. Conversely a warlord would work very well with a Barbarian and Thief as strikers.
Also, when you talk of optimization, you're talking about combat; if the campaign has more out-of-combat action, perhaps other classes can be more useful?
There is really no great answer for this because it depends mainly on two things; the campaign and the build. I will, however, give you my list and my favorites.
Defender: Fighter, hands down. They are sticky and do great with keeping the squishies safe.
Leader: For heals, go with a cleric. But for buffs and added benefits, go with a Warlord. But my favorite is the Shaman; good mix of buffs and free multi-target healing (if you have the right build).
Striker: For single target murderation, it's a tie between the Ranger and the Barbarian. However, the Avenger has some awesome mechanics and can almost do as much damage as the Barb and Ranger due to how accurate they are. Give them a multi-attack power, and they can easily achieve that with all of the damage bonuses they get. And Warlocks get a lot of love from me because of how fun they are to play.
Controller: Wizard, hands down. The ability they have to move and change the battlefield is second to none. Not only that, but paragon Pyromancers can do striker-level damage to multiple targets. Plus, it's fun to pull a bunch of enemies into a small area and then nuke them.
Defender: Fighter, hands down. They are sticky and do great with keeping the squishies safe.
Leader: For heals, go with a cleric. But for buffs and added benefits, go with a Warlord. But my favorite is the Shaman; good mix of buffs and free multi-target healing (if you have the right build).
Striker: For single target murderation, it's a tie between the Ranger and the Barbarian. However, the Avenger has some awesome mechanics and can almost do as much damage as the Barb and Ranger due to how accurate they are. Give them a multi-attack power, and they can easily achieve that with all of the damage bonuses they get. And Warlocks get a lot of love from me because of how fun they are to play.
Controller: Wizard, hands down. The ability they have to move and change the battlefield is second to none. Not only that, but paragon Pyromancers can do striker-level damage to multiple targets. Plus, it's fun to pull a bunch of enemies into a small area and then nuke them.
wlmartin
Explorer
: Usually a class that uses a certain set of abilities (ie STR / CON or INT / WIS) and a race that uses the same set of abilities will work well
: The class guides in the various PHB's all tell you what race works best for this class
: The race guides in the various PHB's all tell you what class works best for this race
Really though, most classes in 4e are a LOT more balanced than in previous editions. A 30th level fighter vs a 30th level barbarian will do the same damage on average, with different swings (one has better lower results, one has better higher results, i forget which).
This balancing can be improved slightly by making sure that the key abilities you use are keyed to class & race however at most this may give you an extra +1 more than someone without that ability bonus from that race.
Normal MinMaxing rules apply, and if you are point buying DO NOT buy maximum points. Sure a 20STR fighter looks cool but the cost between 19STR and 20STR is a big jump and you can either a) Feed that into CON, DEX or b) Feed that into the secondary ability
Don't forget, at Lvl 4 you get a +1 to 2 abilities... whilst that may seem cool, getting the +1 to make your 20STR fighter a 21STR fighter is pointless. Making him a 19STR to a 20STR is valuable.
Can you wait 3 levels to get that extra +?
DonAdam
Explorer
This is definitely wrong. Given CA, Rogue benefits every turn from Sneak Attack. With no one next to him, Avenger benefits from Oath every attack, and every turn with Painful Oath. These both pair wonderfully with a Warlord.
Neonchameleon
Legend
If and only if the characters have taken Melee Training (or Power of Skill). Oh, or the rogue is ranged.
As others have said, this is largely a matter of opinion. That said, here are my opinions!
Defender: Fighter is still the king. Stickiness, decent multi-marking capability (highly build dependent, though), and easily capable of Striker-like damage all combine to make the Weaponmaster Fighter the best Defender out there, the one by which all other Defenders are measured. It's a pretty robust field, though.
Runner-Ups: Knights break down in Paragon and higher. Shielding Swormdages are a unique take on the Defender role, but Assault and Ensnaring Swordmages are strictly sub-par Defenders. Paladins are capable, buoyed by some truly ridiculous PHB1 Paragon Paths. Wardens are all about survivability, but are capable. Battleminds had some big issues. They've received some fixes since their debut, but are still suffering from want of a strong MBA. It's frankly silly that a melee class, let alone a Defender, doesn't have easy access to an MBA.
Striker: If it's Martial, you're good to go, baby. Rangers are top dog, though, and likely will be forever until Twin Strike is nerfed. Martial guys typically have it better than implement users, however. They have access to the improved Expertise feats, superior weapons, multi-attacks, minor action attacks, immediate reaction and immediate interrupt attacks, better support in the form of Martial Power and Martial Power 2... everything you need to get your damage score higher.
Runner-Ups: Basically, everybody else. Barbarians fare decently, provided you go Whirling Slayer or otherwise sacrifice your secondary stat in favor of Dex. Pump anything but Strength and Dex, and you'll find your AC is hilariously low and you become the true definition of a glass cannon. Sorcerers can make due by playing to their strengths; find all the static mods to your damage you can get your grubby little mitts on, and the focus on bursts, blasts, and multi-attacks to make the most out of it. Few Strikers are out-and-out bad, with the possible exception of the old-style Assassin. Executioner Assassin is passable, I've seen them in play. They pair well with Warlords.
Warlocks... eh. I want to like them, but I just really don't buy the whole 'single-target controller' angle. I think a Sorcerer-King Pact Warlock can make due in Heroic at least, thanks to that one feat that gives them an extra 1d8 psychic damage or whatever. They'll probably have to poach powers from the other flavors of Warlock, however.
Leader: Warlords, hands down. If your party isn't the right party for a Warlod, wait for the inevitable TPK, and then remake as the right party for a warlord.
Runner-Ups: Cleric received some serious nerfs lately. They're now strictly the "best healers," but so what? All healing does is stretch out a fight. Warlords win for enabling their allies to take extra attacks. If a Warlord really and truly doesn't work for your party, then Shaman or Bard do just fine.
Runepriests and Artificers both suffer from a lack of support, but Artificers have a little bit more going for them due to a few really good powers.
Controller: Wizards, due to the sheer number of options they have and the great support. Invokers get honorable mention, since they get access to some truly amazing (save ends) effects. If you can capitalize on those, you're golden. Psions are good due to the spammability of their early At-Wills.
Runner-Ups: Binder and Seeker are messes, and more or less regarded as total failures. Druids are pretty good, but need to be built carefully. You can easily construct a glass cannon melee guy or a Wizard with crumbier powers.
Defender: Fighter is still the king. Stickiness, decent multi-marking capability (highly build dependent, though), and easily capable of Striker-like damage all combine to make the Weaponmaster Fighter the best Defender out there, the one by which all other Defenders are measured. It's a pretty robust field, though.
Runner-Ups: Knights break down in Paragon and higher. Shielding Swormdages are a unique take on the Defender role, but Assault and Ensnaring Swordmages are strictly sub-par Defenders. Paladins are capable, buoyed by some truly ridiculous PHB1 Paragon Paths. Wardens are all about survivability, but are capable. Battleminds had some big issues. They've received some fixes since their debut, but are still suffering from want of a strong MBA. It's frankly silly that a melee class, let alone a Defender, doesn't have easy access to an MBA.
Striker: If it's Martial, you're good to go, baby. Rangers are top dog, though, and likely will be forever until Twin Strike is nerfed. Martial guys typically have it better than implement users, however. They have access to the improved Expertise feats, superior weapons, multi-attacks, minor action attacks, immediate reaction and immediate interrupt attacks, better support in the form of Martial Power and Martial Power 2... everything you need to get your damage score higher.
Runner-Ups: Basically, everybody else. Barbarians fare decently, provided you go Whirling Slayer or otherwise sacrifice your secondary stat in favor of Dex. Pump anything but Strength and Dex, and you'll find your AC is hilariously low and you become the true definition of a glass cannon. Sorcerers can make due by playing to their strengths; find all the static mods to your damage you can get your grubby little mitts on, and the focus on bursts, blasts, and multi-attacks to make the most out of it. Few Strikers are out-and-out bad, with the possible exception of the old-style Assassin. Executioner Assassin is passable, I've seen them in play. They pair well with Warlords.
Warlocks... eh. I want to like them, but I just really don't buy the whole 'single-target controller' angle. I think a Sorcerer-King Pact Warlock can make due in Heroic at least, thanks to that one feat that gives them an extra 1d8 psychic damage or whatever. They'll probably have to poach powers from the other flavors of Warlock, however.
Leader: Warlords, hands down. If your party isn't the right party for a Warlod, wait for the inevitable TPK, and then remake as the right party for a warlord.
Runner-Ups: Cleric received some serious nerfs lately. They're now strictly the "best healers," but so what? All healing does is stretch out a fight. Warlords win for enabling their allies to take extra attacks. If a Warlord really and truly doesn't work for your party, then Shaman or Bard do just fine.
Runepriests and Artificers both suffer from a lack of support, but Artificers have a little bit more going for them due to a few really good powers.
Controller: Wizards, due to the sheer number of options they have and the great support. Invokers get honorable mention, since they get access to some truly amazing (save ends) effects. If you can capitalize on those, you're golden. Psions are good due to the spammability of their early At-Wills.
Runner-Ups: Binder and Seeker are messes, and more or less regarded as total failures. Druids are pretty good, but need to be built carefully. You can easily construct a glass cannon melee guy or a Wizard with crumbier powers.
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Peraion Graufalke
First Post
Brutal Scoundrel Rogues should have a high Strength.
The Battle Cleric recently got some power-ups, including new powers in the enabling department. I'd say he's a better leader than the Devoted Cleric right now, but still in the runner-ups.
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