What are the differences between the Battlesystem Rules for 1e and 2e?

[Devall2000]

I recently purchased the original battlesystem rules and am curious to know what the differences are between the original rules and the 2nd edition rules.

thanks,
Jamie

 

[Delta]

Good question. They have significant differences. I think the 2nd Ed. book is a lot better and more elegant (but not perfect). It's by Doug Niles who also did the excellent Star Frontiers Knights Hawks starship game rules.

The main difference in combat is that in 1E you had this full-page table where (as I recall) you rolled 2d10, added a reverse-AC-modifier, and cross-indexed with the power of the attacker to find a number of hit. I think you had to record those hits on paper, or flip counters over, or something. Table lookups like that are a drag. The scale of the miniatures varied by what size they were (could be 1:20, 1:10, 1:5 or 1:2; then you turn around and have to add combat penalties depending on figure scale).

In 2E the table was gone and every attacker just had an attack die type. Roll those dice and the numbers showed how many hits you got. The defender then got to make an aromr check to avoid those. Hits simply caused figure-removals. The scale of all figures was 1:10. The book was also much nicer design, with actual color photos of figures in formation demonstrating the rules.

Some thoughts for conversions to d20 are here: http://www.superdan.net/battlsys.html

 

[Devall2000]

Thank you for the comparison. A friend of mine has the 2nd edition battlesystem, and he suggested that I take a look at it. Based on what I'm hearing, it sounds like a good idea as well as a better alternative. I'll check out the 3rd edition recommedations for Battlesystem.
-Jamie

 

[DaveyJones]

2edADnD Battlesystem also had a couple softcover supplements.

one for minis conversion.
and one for skirmishes.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Actually, I prefer the 1e Battlesystem rules, since they're just a direct extrapolation of AD&D rules to large units. 2e battlesystem requires conversion of individual units to its own rules, and loses some weird things in translation (for example, BS2e spellcasters can cast a very limited raft of spells compared to their normal daily allotment). Attack Ratings do seem to make combat go more smoothly, but IMX it's not a huge time-saving.

 

[dcas]

The 1e rules also come with counters. The 2e rules don't and assume that you have miniatures. In fact there is a whole chapter in the rules on how to paint miniatures. How lame is that?

 

[diaglo]

my current 3.11ed for Workgroups DM, howandwhy99, just borrowed some of my Battlesystem rules. the 1edADnD and 2edADnD plus skirmish supplement. he also borrowed Cry Havoc and Heroes of Battle. i think he has the Mongoose Quintessential Fighter and probably the 2edADnD Combat and Tactics.

he didn't ask for my D&D Companion Rules War Machine.

we are in the AoW. next session involves a mass combat. should be interesting if not TPK like.

 

[howandwhy99]

The differences between 1E and 2E are significant to say the least. After learning the system you do own, browsing the other is probably the best way to learn the specific differences. IOW, many bigger parts appear to be in both systems, but the details change across the board in almost every part.

my current 3.11ed for Workgroups DM, howandwhy99, just borrowed some of my Battlesystem rules. the 1edADnD and 2edADnD plus skirmish supplement. he also borrowed Cry Havoc and Heroes of Battle. i think he has the Mongoose Quintessential Fighter and probably the 2edADnD Combat and Tactics.

he didn't ask for my D&D Companion Rules War Machine.

I have this in my Cyclopedia. And the Companion rules by Mentzer (which looks similar enough). Is there a different ruleset in the earlier edition Companion rulebook?

 

[diaglo]

I have this in my Cyclopedia. And the Companion rules by Mentzer (which looks similar enough). Is there a different ruleset in the earlier edition Companion rulebook?

didn't realize you had the Cyclopedia.
the Companion rules boxed set was Mentzer. and the Cyclopedia is the Mentzer rules edited by Allston

i suck at the rules. but i'm sure the differences between the boxed set and the Cyclopedia are minimal if at all wrt the War Machine part.

 

[billd91]

The 1e rules also come with counters. The 2e rules don't and assume that you have miniatures. In fact there is a whole chapter in the rules on how to paint miniatures. How lame is that?

I seem to recall that 1st edition Battlesystem came with an insert on how to paint miniatures as well.