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What are the worst classic D&D adventure modules?
- Thread starter Bullgrit
- Start date
Steel_Wind
Legend
The DragonLance modules were far from the worst; some were among the best.
There are a few encounters in DL1 which made the railroad unacceptable (elven Rangers - I'm looking at you), but the entire design concept in terms of the story flow was VERY new to what had essentially up to that point been some pretty lame location based advantures which were almost entirely of the Old Skool dungeon designs where "plot" and "motivation" was something that was almost entirely absent from the adventures' "story".
What became obvious in terms of DL1 and DL2's flaws were corrected in later module designs within the DL series. These are only "obvious" mistakes now because of Tracy Hickman's and the rest of the DL design team's initial work. Somebody had to be first to make the mistakes in order to correct them. They blazed the way in both capacities. They deserve to be cut a little slack.
We seem to go through a DragonLance hate thread every year or two on EnWorld. The conlusion is the same in most of the threads, so why not try and cut it off at the pass before we spend another 50-100 posts on it, shall we?
It comes down to this: DragonLance was released ca. 1984 and was the first module series directly supported by novels. This was the real problem, as the tendency of DMs' to try to "force" the characters playing the module to do the same thing as the characters in the novels was repeated time and time again and colors the experiences and recollection of most players. Those problems had exceedingly little to do with the design of the actual modules themselves, but was a consequence of the novels and the age of the players and DMs involved. There are a few exceptions to this - but most of those over-arching railroad problems were fixed by DL6 when the obscure death rule is wiped from the game's design after a fan backlash.
A lot of the DragonLance module series designs were, in fact, quite brilliant and original. DL4 is an awesome dungeon, as is DL6. The War fought in DL8 and 9 using the Battlesystem rules was very entertaining and innovative and the artwork stunningly detailed and superb.
To this day, the map for the Tower of the High Clerist in DL8 has NEVER been surpassed in detail and size in a single structure map depicted in any other module product published by any other company in any other product line since then -- and they've had 25 years to equal it since the map to the Tower of the High Clerist was released. TWENTY-FIVE FRIKKIN' YEARS. That's a Looooong time folks.
So be a little more balanced on the "DragonLance modules suck" stuff.
I would argue that DL10 and that module's '"dreamtrack design" was incredibly clever and allowed a DM to wipe out his entire party of players with maniacal glee in a TPK - more than once in the same adventure. The value of the look on the player's faces during that event alone was well worth the price of several of the DL modules.
In the end, people recall their experiences with the DragonLance modules as much younger players or as much younger DMs -- and in the vast majority of cases, the real problem with the modules related to the age of the people who were running them and playing them -- and the fact that the DM and players both were far too hung up in recreating the stories of the modules as depicted in the novels, as opposed to actually playing and creating their own stories.
Played on their own, with original characters and without a DM bound and determined to try to make the PCs do "something the way they were supposed to", the DL modules were among the very best modules released for either 1st or 2nd ed.
There is also no doubt that in terms of impact on modern adventure design, the DragonLance series had probably as great an impact - indeed, maybe greater than any other module series ever published, in all of FRPG history. Yes, that "ever" would include Keep on the Borderlands and GDQ1-7.
The plot based structure of the DragonLance module series remains with us today and lies at the core of Paizo's Adventure Path design.
There are a few encounters in DL1 which made the railroad unacceptable (elven Rangers - I'm looking at you), but the entire design concept in terms of the story flow was VERY new to what had essentially up to that point been some pretty lame location based advantures which were almost entirely of the Old Skool dungeon designs where "plot" and "motivation" was something that was almost entirely absent from the adventures' "story".
What became obvious in terms of DL1 and DL2's flaws were corrected in later module designs within the DL series. These are only "obvious" mistakes now because of Tracy Hickman's and the rest of the DL design team's initial work. Somebody had to be first to make the mistakes in order to correct them. They blazed the way in both capacities. They deserve to be cut a little slack.
We seem to go through a DragonLance hate thread every year or two on EnWorld. The conlusion is the same in most of the threads, so why not try and cut it off at the pass before we spend another 50-100 posts on it, shall we?
It comes down to this: DragonLance was released ca. 1984 and was the first module series directly supported by novels. This was the real problem, as the tendency of DMs' to try to "force" the characters playing the module to do the same thing as the characters in the novels was repeated time and time again and colors the experiences and recollection of most players. Those problems had exceedingly little to do with the design of the actual modules themselves, but was a consequence of the novels and the age of the players and DMs involved. There are a few exceptions to this - but most of those over-arching railroad problems were fixed by DL6 when the obscure death rule is wiped from the game's design after a fan backlash.
A lot of the DragonLance module series designs were, in fact, quite brilliant and original. DL4 is an awesome dungeon, as is DL6. The War fought in DL8 and 9 using the Battlesystem rules was very entertaining and innovative and the artwork stunningly detailed and superb.
To this day, the map for the Tower of the High Clerist in DL8 has NEVER been surpassed in detail and size in a single structure map depicted in any other module product published by any other company in any other product line since then -- and they've had 25 years to equal it since the map to the Tower of the High Clerist was released. TWENTY-FIVE FRIKKIN' YEARS. That's a Looooong time folks.
So be a little more balanced on the "DragonLance modules suck" stuff.
I would argue that DL10 and that module's '"dreamtrack design" was incredibly clever and allowed a DM to wipe out his entire party of players with maniacal glee in a TPK - more than once in the same adventure. The value of the look on the player's faces during that event alone was well worth the price of several of the DL modules.
In the end, people recall their experiences with the DragonLance modules as much younger players or as much younger DMs -- and in the vast majority of cases, the real problem with the modules related to the age of the people who were running them and playing them -- and the fact that the DM and players both were far too hung up in recreating the stories of the modules as depicted in the novels, as opposed to actually playing and creating their own stories.
Played on their own, with original characters and without a DM bound and determined to try to make the PCs do "something the way they were supposed to", the DL modules were among the very best modules released for either 1st or 2nd ed.
There is also no doubt that in terms of impact on modern adventure design, the DragonLance series had probably as great an impact - indeed, maybe greater than any other module series ever published, in all of FRPG history. Yes, that "ever" would include Keep on the Borderlands and GDQ1-7.
The plot based structure of the DragonLance module series remains with us today and lies at the core of Paizo's Adventure Path design.
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howandwhy99
Adventurer
I would have to go outside TSR published D&D adventures for the absolute worst published modules. Some were nothing more than "Play the Monster Manual Alphabetically".
Chris Knapp
First Post
Never mind that I think Dragonlance is so NOT in the worst category, but I will definitely catch heck for my nomination for worst:
S3 - Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.
Robots, crashed spaceship, bunny-stumps, Vegepygmies! laser guns, and the map had the initials EGG on it. How lame!
S3 - Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.
Robots, crashed spaceship, bunny-stumps, Vegepygmies! laser guns, and the map had the initials EGG on it. How lame!
S. Baldrick
Explorer
I totally agree with you. The Avatar Trilogy was no fun to go through. The characters were just along for the ride.
The Forest Oracle is truly awful for reasons that have been discussed in another thread.
H4, the adventure for 100th level charcaters was also extremely bad. The fact that it was an adventure for characters level 20-100 (or whatever) pretty much guaranteed that it's be terrible from the outset, IMO.
Some of the Dragonlance modules were the most appalling railroads. This is not just a flaw of the early ones. It was true of at least some later DL modules such as DLA3 (which I read recently for the first time). OTOH, I have never read the majority of the DL modules, so I cannot comment broadly.
I never read the Avatar modules, so I can't comment on those either.
IMO, the worst was Castle Greyhawk. After years of waiting we get this? A lame and useless joke module? Seemed to me like someone was trying to get payback on Gary Gygax.
H4, the adventure for 100th level charcaters was also extremely bad. The fact that it was an adventure for characters level 20-100 (or whatever) pretty much guaranteed that it's be terrible from the outset, IMO.
Some of the Dragonlance modules were the most appalling railroads. This is not just a flaw of the early ones. It was true of at least some later DL modules such as DLA3 (which I read recently for the first time). OTOH, I have never read the majority of the DL modules, so I cannot comment broadly.
I never read the Avatar modules, so I can't comment on those either.
IMO, the worst was Castle Greyhawk. After years of waiting we get this? A lame and useless joke module? Seemed to me like someone was trying to get payback on Gary Gygax.
Joshua Randall
Legend
Noncontroversial choices:
The Forest Oracle. It's badly written, incoherent in some places, and it introduces a new monster that is basically... a pig. That's right; you're a heroic adventurer and you're fighting Wilbur from Chalotte's Web.
Dragonlance Adventures. Sorry, but these are crap. Anything that takes all agency out of the players' hands in favor of basically reading them a story is so counter to what makes D&D fun that it actually makes me angry.
Edgy, postmodern choices:
Tomb of Horrors epitomizes all that was wrong with early D&D. Namely, total arbitrariness, blatant (and encouraged) DM vs. player antagonism, and overreliance on traps. On the plus side, nice pictures to show the players.
Keep on the Borderlands is not an adventure. It's just a map of a keep and some caves, and it leaves the DM to do the work of filling in the details. And there's no actual problem for the PCs to solve. Probably a big hit among the [-]aimless wandering around[/-] sandbox crowd, but utterly boring to my tastes.
One that I love and hate at the same time:
Egg of the Phoenix is a series of awesome, creative vignettes and set-pieces interspersed among a terrible, convoluted, and railroady plot. It commits sins like making certain NPCs unkillable, and forcing the PCs to become passive bystanders as the more powerful NPCs actually do stuff. But it also has the virtues of incredibly cool locations (the tiny graveyard planet that is orbited by a sentient, evil moon) and innovative dungeon design (the timed foray into a vampire's lair to steal several potions of dragon control before they can be used against the PCs' silver dragon allies). Mine it for ideas, but don't ever try running it.
The Forest Oracle. It's badly written, incoherent in some places, and it introduces a new monster that is basically... a pig. That's right; you're a heroic adventurer and you're fighting Wilbur from Chalotte's Web.
Dragonlance Adventures. Sorry, but these are crap. Anything that takes all agency out of the players' hands in favor of basically reading them a story is so counter to what makes D&D fun that it actually makes me angry.
Edgy, postmodern choices:
Tomb of Horrors epitomizes all that was wrong with early D&D. Namely, total arbitrariness, blatant (and encouraged) DM vs. player antagonism, and overreliance on traps. On the plus side, nice pictures to show the players.
Keep on the Borderlands is not an adventure. It's just a map of a keep and some caves, and it leaves the DM to do the work of filling in the details. And there's no actual problem for the PCs to solve. Probably a big hit among the [-]aimless wandering around[/-] sandbox crowd, but utterly boring to my tastes.
One that I love and hate at the same time:
Egg of the Phoenix is a series of awesome, creative vignettes and set-pieces interspersed among a terrible, convoluted, and railroady plot. It commits sins like making certain NPCs unkillable, and forcing the PCs to become passive bystanders as the more powerful NPCs actually do stuff. But it also has the virtues of incredibly cool locations (the tiny graveyard planet that is orbited by a sentient, evil moon) and innovative dungeon design (the timed foray into a vampire's lair to steal several potions of dragon control before they can be used against the PCs' silver dragon allies). Mine it for ideas, but don't ever try running it.
Worst classic D&D module I played: Keep on the Borderlands.
Why: Mearls sums it up nicely (The Inside Scoop on Gaming - RPGnet)
Worst classic D&D module I read: Tomb of Horrors
Why: <McEnroe>You cannot be serious<\McEnroe>
Why: Mearls sums it up nicely (The Inside Scoop on Gaming - RPGnet)
Worst classic D&D module I read: Tomb of Horrors
Why: <McEnroe>You cannot be serious<\McEnroe>
MortonStromgal
First Post
Depends on how you run it, if you give the staff to a PC as back-story (rather than run it with an npc) you can run it 100 different times and never have the PCs do the same thing. The first 3 DL aren't nearly as bad IMHO as the later ones. I think DL1 railroad can be boiled down to 1. poor layout, 2. having a character in the book that is either played by a PC or NPCed that is crucial to the story when you could have easily given the item to any PC character with a paragraph of backstory on how they got the item.
[edit] DL 1 should have been summed up as give this item to a PC, they remember X much about how they got it from some temple but dont know the details, wondered around in a delirious state for awhile. Then go into details about how to track the army movements and what it means for each town (this is actually in the book but written in a choose your own adventure style rather than in a way the GM can handle it). Now have people after the staff and eventually figure out they have to take the item back to the temple. Thats really the story, where do we need to go because they are after us and how do we get there, meanwhile the armies take over more and more friendly areas that might lead to their capture and the staff going into the hands of the enemy.
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Steel_Wind
Legend
I make no comment on those. The classic DragonLance modules of the 1st Ed era were DL1-DL14, where DL5 was essentially a worldguide and DL11 was a boardgame.
DL1-4 (Vol 1), DL6-9 (vol 2), and DL10 + DL12-14 (vol 3) for the three trilogies of the classic campaign. They were released over the course of two and a half years or so.
The two of the DL modules that followed it (DL15 and 16) were not part of the original campaign as such.
All, or nearly all, of the subsequent modules were in the 2nd Ed era and are unconnected with the classic DL module campaign. By that time, TSR was clearly milking the DragonLance brand for all it was worth.
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