JRRNeiklot
First Post
Training and keep/castle and soldiers to protect it.
D&D 5E What do players spend their treasure on?
Oh jeez! I forgot training on my list! That's a biggee.
Yeah. After room & board, training should be the next most common "big ticket" item on the PC's list. They don't need to all of the time of course (just at level up). But when they are ready to level up, that week, two weeks, however long you RP the "training/downtime" for them to level up would be a nice big chunk of change.
...and increase as the levels do, I've always thought. Training to get from 1st to 2nd level shouldn't be that big of a deal. Turning 5th or 7th, particularly for spellcasters/as they break through into new/higher levels of spells, should take longer and more money.
I'm not sure what/how 5e handles the "training" aspect of the game. But I will always include it. It also, normally, demands the PCs make their way to somewhere "civilized", with suitably high enough level NPCs to mentor them, in which to train...which then leads to the added incidentals of room & board for a number of days, weeks...maybe even months at high levels.
I also thought, after the list was posted (and it kinda just goes along with the tending animals/mounts) but back in the day subduing and/or acquiring "monsters" was also a common thing (whether your game world has a legitimate market for this or not)...Charm Monster being on the spell list since forever helped with this. Hippogriffs or dragons to have as mounts. Puddings and otyughs as waste desposal. Trolls and Hook Horrors as guardians. Even just paying/bribing monsters to fill various positions. Filling your stronghold (or at least the dungeons) with all manner of crazy creatures. Capturing, transporting, controlling, keeping contained (and feeding, of course) monsters could also be a hefty cost for a particularly ambitious PC.
Yeah. After room & board, training should be the next most common "big ticket" item on the PC's list. They don't need to all of the time of course (just at level up). But when they are ready to level up, that week, two weeks, however long you RP the "training/downtime" for them to level up would be a nice big chunk of change.
...and increase as the levels do, I've always thought. Training to get from 1st to 2nd level shouldn't be that big of a deal. Turning 5th or 7th, particularly for spellcasters/as they break through into new/higher levels of spells, should take longer and more money.
I'm not sure what/how 5e handles the "training" aspect of the game. But I will always include it. It also, normally, demands the PCs make their way to somewhere "civilized", with suitably high enough level NPCs to mentor them, in which to train...which then leads to the added incidentals of room & board for a number of days, weeks...maybe even months at high levels.
I also thought, after the list was posted (and it kinda just goes along with the tending animals/mounts) but back in the day subduing and/or acquiring "monsters" was also a common thing (whether your game world has a legitimate market for this or not)...Charm Monster being on the spell list since forever helped with this. Hippogriffs or dragons to have as mounts. Puddings and otyughs as waste desposal. Trolls and Hook Horrors as guardians. Even just paying/bribing monsters to fill various positions. Filling your stronghold (or at least the dungeons) with all manner of crazy creatures. Capturing, transporting, controlling, keeping contained (and feeding, of course) monsters could also be a hefty cost for a particularly ambitious PC.
Warbringer
Explorer
While players are generally encouraged to spend their hard earned cash on beer, spending it on whoresis usually frond upon (especially at the gaming table).
Characters, can spend it on whatever the hell tickles their fancy.
Characters, can spend it on whatever the hell tickles their fancy.
Training time and costs were eliminated in 2e, I think (certainly gone in 3e). I see some merit in a "training" model, but also some drawbacks. Where does the money go? What do the mentors do wwith it?Can the PC's mentor others? If mentors were hard for them to find, they should have a market. It also indicates that PC's can never develop anything new, or progress beyond those they must seek out to mentor them.
At the same time, the 3e model assumes PC's are always training. Is there no cost for this? Wizards find arcane texts to peruse at a local public library? No supplies are consumed? A regular upkeep cosr to maintain gear, and account for consumption to practice and train, does not seem unreasonable.
Does it serve a purpose? The PC's need more gold to spend on more costs. Don't caravam=n guards, soldiers, etc. also train? It costs them HOW much? Who pays for that? Why can't the PC's earn income on down time, whether working as guards, using their Craft and other skills, crafting scrolls for third parties, etc.? If we want "realism" to take their treasure away, then it seems reasonablle that we should have realism earning as well.
Not in my games they weren't. haha.
To the trainers? To the equipment and materials needed/used in the training...spell components, inks and paper, weapons/armor repairs/upkeep,..food and living arrangements while they are training (which could easily be assumed to be taken on/included in the trainer's fee if the PCs don't arrange separate quarters).
Make a living?
At a certain level, I would certainly say, Yes! For me, I would set a minimum level: 7th seems good to train...and no more than a level or two less than the PC, themselves, has sounds like a reasonable cut-off. A 7th level PC could certainly train a 3rd level one into 4th...or even 5th into 6th. But is new enough at being 7th level to not train someone else into how to be 7th.
I suppose one could set that up in one's game if one wanted.
Well, there's a couple of ways to approach this. 1) Yes, the PC can not "train themselves" and thus must always be on the lookout for someone higher level to learn from. OR 2) The PC's can train themselves after a certain amount of experience has been had...figure things out on their own. If we're letting them train others at 7th level...then 7th level seems like a good place to start. If they come across a higher level nPC that they could potentially learn from, then great. But if, say, they're on a multi-month [in-game time] underdark or trans-planar adventure where they won't be encountering anyone willing to train them...they can level up themselves...but still need the requisite time and shell out the requisite costs (still going to need those supplies and trial and error, etc...) Perhaps even give them a break on the time/gold expenses if they train with a mentor.
Right. So whether you want to do the mini-/side-game of "training/downtime", a meta-game tax on treasure makes sense.
To training in game? I would say so. Making (and keeping good relations with) contacts/mentors? It adds an automatic "Interactions Pillar" element to the game not to mention any/all story/plot hooks that might stem from this particular NPC...if nothing else.
I suppose it is reasonable that they would.
Not the PC's problem or concern...unless they're the one's hiring them, I suppose.
Who on earth (or beyond) said that they can't?! I would encourage PC's to do just that with [at least some of] their downtime.
No argument to that, at all. But most PC "earning it" is assumed to be through treasure finding/stealing. If the game wants to lay out parameters/guidelines for PC's getting paid of [in some cases, literal] odd jobs (which, "realistically', most other NPCs would not be able to do), I'm all for it. But I would expect players to take some initiative for these kinds of pursuits in their downtime, themselves.
So it’s vastly more expensive to maintain my equipment in training than when I am battling in the Tunnels of the Troll Lord? The difference between what it costs me to maintain my lifestyle with a trainer and without seems like it’s paid to the trainer. So he can choose to train adventurers (for how much?) or be a guardsman/caravan guard/whatever for a few silver a year? The economics are screwed up.
I risk my life adventuring, and spend all the gold I get on training, paying someone who takes little or no risk? How did that “someone” get the riches to train to his level?
Pretty sure the old training rules allowed self-training, but it took longer, so it cost more.
What does not make sense is the huge cash outflow to the adventurer and huge inflow to the trainer, when everything else costs a pittance by comparison. To your supplies, how does the cost of training from L9 to L10, say, compare to the cost of a full set of top notch non-magical gear for the fighter? How many suits of armor does he destroy in training (when they weather the trolls just fine)?
Good relations? I see a ton of money being spent, so HE works for ME. Where are these higher level guys when we’re approached to go out and risk our lives? They’re more capable, and we’re just giving them all the loot anyway. Why not cut out the middleman and they can go get it themselves!
Somehow, caravan guards that make a few silver a month can afford to train, when I’m dropping tens of thousands of gold every few months? I’d think that’s a concern – if you have an INT over 3, you may want to find out where these guys are getting their vastly cheaper training.
Flowing from this, mundane earnings paying mundane expenses seems pretty reasonable. So why am I hauling back huge sacks of gold that vanish as fast as the caravan guard’s few silvers?
I’d rather have the game focus on the adventurous aspect of the characters’ lives and leave both mundane earnings and mundane expenses behind the scenes. Which seems to be the way 2e and up treated it. 1e was quite different in that you earned a lot of the xp needed to gain levels by looting treasure, so you needed training costs to carve it back. With xp earned for valorous acts, level gaining without mundane training seems similarly reasonable,
Darrius_Adler
Explorer
Go with my personal favorite, tricking the party into paying 10,000gp for their own assassination.
dd.stevenson
Super KY
I really dig Dungeon World's Carouse Move.
A lot of good replies here.
I think this is a great grasp on the core of the question. As far as my group is concerned, spending their eventual wealth on real estate and donations and other such pure role playing expenditures will probably be engaging enough to the players to feel rewarding. There is definitely a lack of (current, pre-DMG) mechanical rewards to be had with that cash, however. Making a keep something that can provide certain tangible benefits to one's character other then a place to sleep and stash loot seems like a very good way of dealing with this, as a 'keep' can take the form of a theater or college if that's to the player's taste. It seems to me that the PCs would need to be at least around level 12 to start engaging in keep building, however.
From levels 4-10, there seems to be little to do with cash that results in something the players can keep rather than simply making the money disappear.
I'm fairly certain the other players in my group would stage a mutiny if the GM decided they would have to pay large sums of cash and go on extensive quests for trainers in order to gain levels.
I think this is a great grasp on the core of the question. As far as my group is concerned, spending their eventual wealth on real estate and donations and other such pure role playing expenditures will probably be engaging enough to the players to feel rewarding. There is definitely a lack of (current, pre-DMG) mechanical rewards to be had with that cash, however. Making a keep something that can provide certain tangible benefits to one's character other then a place to sleep and stash loot seems like a very good way of dealing with this, as a 'keep' can take the form of a theater or college if that's to the player's taste. It seems to me that the PCs would need to be at least around level 12 to start engaging in keep building, however.
From levels 4-10, there seems to be little to do with cash that results in something the players can keep rather than simply making the money disappear.
I'm fairly certain the other players in my group would stage a mutiny if the GM decided they would have to pay large sums of cash and go on extensive quests for trainers in order to gain levels.
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