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D&D (2024) What do you expect/hope to see in future playtest packets? (+)

Do you want them to be weaker?

I think most people would interpret it that way, but no. I really mean a total overhaul.

My biggest complaint is that I want fewer spells that solve adventures. For example, if the PCs find out they need to talk to a Sage that died hundreds of years ago, I want them to solve that problem by going on adventures. I want them to travel to the afterlife and find her, not just cast True Resurrection. If they want to travel to Arcadia to find her, I want them to find a spelljammer to sail across the Astra Sea, or locate a portal to Sigil, not just cast Plane Shift or Gate or Astral Projection. I think Teleport is an awful spell that belongs in this category, too, simply because it does so much and then tries to "balance" it by sometimes damaging the party... in a game where you can so easily rest.

The real problem with the above spells is that they don't actually do anything in your average home game. All they do is force the DM to move where the adventure is so that the spells don't progress the campaign. You still have to have stuff for the players to do, after all. You can't actually just let Gandalf and Frodo Teleport to Mt. Doom, chuck the One Ring into the fire, and be home in time for second breakfast. That's not how the game works. Instead of making the adventure about the ordeal of travelling to the afterlife to talk to the ancient Sage, you just move all those encounters to stuff that happens on Arcadia, or as quests for the Sage. So the spells don't actually solve problems, they just move where the adventures have to be in the storyline. That means at a design level, all these spells don't actually do anything. So what are they doing in the game at all from that design-level perspective? We've just determined that they're non-abilities. It's the same problem as the 2014 Ranger's Natural Explorer, which stops making sense when the game includes long rests that eliminate day-over-day attrition.

Worse, though, is that these adventure-solving spells kind of break publishing high-level adventure design. Do you write an adventure that requires those spells? An adventure that says, "For characters at levels 14-20 as long as you have one Wizard or Cleric"? Or one that bans them or ignores that they exist? Teleport just happens to do nothing anywhere the adventure is taking place? Plane Shift isn't useful because finding a planar key is always harder than traveling to the plane by an established portal? How do you write an adventure that supports both one group of players that don't have full spellcasters, and this other group that has a Wizard, a Warlock, a Bard, and a Cleric?

So I think there's a whole class of high-level spells whose primary effect on the game is limiting the DM's options for adventures and making publishing high-level adventures a total nightmare.

Second, there are a lot spells that I think should be removed as spells and added as magic items or otherwise limited-use options or curses. Some are just poorly written, resulting in them being much more powerful than they have any right to be, but all of them are basically magic items that all Wizards get. Simulacrum, Forcecage, Magnificent Mansion, Clone, Demiplane, Feeblemind, Imprisonment, etc. I don't think they should be on-tap abilities or class-restricted abilities, but instead should be things you find or quest to accomplish. I don't think them being in the game as they are is an improvement to the game at all. Nearly all of them used to be spells that were primarily intended for NPC spellcasters or had so many limitations that the PCs wouldn't want to use them very often. Well, they've slowly removed all those limits and hindrances. Now they're mostly just silly for existing.

Third, nearly all the direct damage spells at higher levels deal the same damage as an upcast Fireball with a novel area of effect. Sometimes they aren't even that good. That's really dumb, and I don't think the problem is with Fireball. I don't even think Fireball dealing 8d6 has proven that it's actually above par for what a 3rd-level spell should be, and that just makes me think high-level spells should have a different par for damage than they do. High CR creatures just have so many hit points now. High-level damage spells should do more than the same "indiscriminately damage an area for (spell level + 5)d6 damage of a fixed type". Why aren't they more flexible like Chromatic Orb? Why aren't they more discrete like Chain Lightning? Why aren't there more like Sunbeam or Vampiric Touch that are transformative? Why are all the blaster spells just more Fireballs when Fireball has a built-in upcast?

That's not even getting into how messed up high level divine spells are. Why are there are so few spells at that level for divine casters? There are nine Clerical spells at 7th level. There are four Clerical spells at 8th level, and four at 9th level. That's not just Basic, either. That's with all the splat they've printed. The divine damage nerf doesn't really make sense at high level, either. It's fine for clerical and druidic bread-and-butter spells to be sub-par or limited for damage, but high-level spells? Divine spells at high levels should be few in number and less flexible than arcane options, but it doesn't make sense that they should still have a damage nerf.
 

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Parmandur

Book-Friend
I don't know that we have a basis for that judgement.
I don't see thst there is a basis to believe that we will see anymore...? They have bundled Spell and rules changes with the Classes and character building options, and the only remaining Class is Monk. We may see a few new tweaks when they do the next pass on Classes, butnI doubt we will see much more, and expect no dedicated Spells packet at all.
 

To be honest, I think we've seen most of the changes they have in the works for Spells already.
I would love to see what power-level tweaks they have in mind that would challenge the concept of Best in Slot for spell choices.

Fix True Strike? Can Vicious Mockery be enhanced if it were a bard-only spell? Gimme a Mordenkainen's Sword that would excite a Wizard.

Can they finally steal and update the spells from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide and the Elemental Evil Player's Companion and make sure they are all valid options? Green-Flame Blade can be made to work better, mechanically.
 

I don't see thst there is a basis to believe that we will see anymore...? They have bundled Spell and rules changes with the Classes and character building options, and the only remaining Class is Monk. We may see a few new tweaks when they do the next pass on Classes, butnI doubt we will see much more, and expect no dedicated Spells packet at all.
I hope the spells from the Elemental Evil Players Companion resource are brought into the PH, which would enable more elemental builds in the core, and be a strong resource for the Way of the Four Elements monk to be enhanced.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I hope the spells from the Elemental Evil Players Companion resource are brought into the PH, which would enable more elemental builds in the core, and be a strong resource for the Way of the Four Elements monk to be enhanced.
They have had opportunities to do so and have chosen to pretend that it doesn't exist every time something it would be relevant to is released. So, don't hold your breath.
 


UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
I don't see thst there is a basis to believe that we will see anymore...? They have bundled Spell and rules changes with the Classes and character building options, and the only remaining Class is Monk. We may see a few new tweaks when they do the next pass on Classes, butnI doubt we will see much more, and expect no dedicated Spells packet at all.
It is possible that you are correct but as it is, beside Paladin Spell, they have barely touched spellcasting. At the very least they could make find traps useful. However, they have not mentioned (as far as I know) the feedback on the proposed spell changes. I would be shocked it this is all we get.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
It is possible that you are correct but as it is, beside Paladin Spell, they have barely touched spellcasting. At the very least they could make find traps useful. However, they have not mentioned (as far as I know) the feedback on the proposed spell changes. I would be shocked it this is all we get.
Well, we'll see: Spells are one area they haven't been shy eith errata in 5E, so they might be fairly satisfied as is
 

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