D&D 5E What else to I need to consider for a 5e realism hard mode?

[snickersnax]

I have a great group of highly competent players and I'm thinking about running our next campaign with a 5e "hard mode" rules set. We are all interested in a campaign that plays more like a fantasy novel and less like a cartoon or video game.

What I have so far is:

1)HD = 1 + proficiency bonus, first level characters will start with 3HD and max hit points, and will have 7 HD at level 17+
2)ASI = +1 to ability scores instead of +2
3)Feats = no feats or possibly feats for variant human, fighters at level 6 and 14, and rogues at level 10
4)No multiclass or possibly no multiclass into barbarian and sorcerer and no multiclass out of monk, paladin, cleric, or warlock (without penalties)
5)No scaling cantrips
6)Strength doesn't add to hit, Dexterity doesn't add to damage.
7)Slow healing: no short rests, long rest healing is 1+ con bonus
8)No extra attack, except fighters at level 11
9)Having skill proficiency gives minimum roll of 10, expertise is not double proficiency, but gives minimum of 15
10)Ranged spell attack to hit is dexterity based
11)Fireball and lightning bolt reduced to 6d6 damage, delayed blast fireball reduced to 10d6
12)Eliminate paladin divine smite, ranger damage from hunter's mark and warlock damage from hex
13)Old school wizards must prepare spell slots
14)No superiority dice for battlemasters, they can use maneuvers with no limit and no dice
15)Proficiency bonus added to AC
16)Armor gives damage reduction, no bonus to AC
17)Bards are 1/2 casters
18)Polymorph doesn't add any hp and also doesn't meld equipment.

Some of these rules I already use, the big one is the change to HD and rebalancing around ~1/3 hitpoints at high level.

 

[Gardens & Goblins]

% chance of the character being born with some crippling ailment and/or acquiring something similar during their day to day living in a world with minimal sewage systems (if any!)?

 

[Dausuul]

"I'm thinking about running our next campaign with a 5e 'hard mode' rules set. We are all interested in a campaign that plays more like a fantasy novel and less like a cartoon or video game."

What are the specific elements you find too cartoony or video gamey? That's always the place to start with any house rule: Define what you're trying to fix.

You're proposing a lot of sweeping changes here, and I feel like whatever you're trying to accomplish, there is probably a cleaner, simpler way to do it.

 

[manduck]

If you're looking for more of a story/novel style game and less of a "game" in feel, you don't need all these rules changes. Honestly, looking over your rules tweaks it seems that you're just making high level play impossible. With all these rules, you're limiting the threats a PC can handle and taking their ability to handle things beyond a certain CR right off the table. If you want your D&D campaign to feel more like a novel and less like a game, the last thing you want to do is add or tweak rules. Just focus more on story and social interaction with combat only happening where it makes sense. If you want to add a gritty feel, use the options rules for resting that makes recovery a lot longer.

If you really want more of a mechanical impact, start doing things like tracking resources and encumbrance. If your quiver only holds 20 arrows, you can't just sit back and shoot forever. Make them pay for or find those expensive spell components. The DMG has great advice on different play styles. Redesigning the classes to take away what makes them work is a lot of effort for little reward. There are plenty of ways to challenge a group without taking away every little aspect of a class that does damage.

The trick here is that you have to be really descriptive in your sessions. Whatever you emphasize in a game is what the players will deem important. If story is the focus, they'll gravitate towards that. If combat is the focus, they'll gravitate towards the rules. Give them lots to investigate, discuss, maneuver around (socially and politically) and that will deliver your novel experience. Do it all the time, even in combat. Really describe that marshy swamp they get ambushed in, then add in mechanics like difficult terrain for the muddy ground. Things like that.

As someone who has both killed plenty of players and had plenty of characters die, the game can be plenty dangerous without all these rules adjustments.

 

[Tony Vargas]

We are all interested in a campaign that plays more like a fantasy novel and less like a cartoon or video game.

I guess it depends on who's writing the fantasy novel... Moorcock? Tolkien? Martin?
... Pratchett?

 

[snickersnax]

"I'm thinking about running our next campaign with a 5e 'hard mode' rules set. We are all interested in a campaign that plays more like a fantasy novel and less like a cartoon or video game."

What are the specific elements you find too cartoony or video gamey? That's always the place to start with any house rule: Define what you're trying to fix.

Thanks for helping me clarify. So I'm trying to fix (in no particular order) BBEG viability, Wile E Coyote falling damage, character hit point bloat, rocket tag, and video game style natural healing along with a few other odds and ends.

<odds and ends> for example: having a system that would support a story like Steinbeck's The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights wherein a valiant knight hears about a terrible giant wreaking havoc on the country-side. After gathering information about the giant, he decides on a strategy to defeat the giant in combat. The knight sharpens his sword and removes his armor and relies on his dexterity to avoid getting hit. His strategy is a successful one he avoids the giant's initial attack and delivers a critical wound to the giant. (I would guess the "giant" in this story may be best represented in D&D by an ogre)

You're proposing a lot of sweeping changes here, and I feel like whatever you're trying to accomplish, there is probably a cleaner, simpler way to do it.

That would be exactly what I'm looking for.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I'm not sure how BM maneuvers would work if you don't use dice. But if you want hard mode, I'd bring back elements from 1e. Saving throws for things like petrification are one and done. No "make another one the next round to see if you recover" stuff. And if you fail a poison or hold person save, you are poisoned/held for the duration, no retrying again every round. And finally, I'd impart saving throws for items like there was in AD&D. Acid and dragon breath is a lot more scary when it also destroys all of your gear...

 

[guachi]

I'd play a fighter/rogue so I could have heavier armor for the damage reduction. My sneak attack still scales and I don't really care about ability bonus to damage because most of my damage comes from sneak attack dice.

No short rests means I'll avoid being a target as much as possible.

Why be anything but a rogue? It's the only class you haven't screwed over.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Thanks for helping me clarify. So I'm trying to fix (in no particular order) BBEG viability, Wile E Coyote falling damage, character hit point bloat, rocket tag, and video game style natural healing along with a few other odds and ends.

Umm, you realize reducing HP increases rocket tag. BBEG's also need expanded defenses to not be killed instantly by focused fire.

I don't think 5th edition D&D is the system you're looking for if you want to basically change every aspect of it.

 

[Arilyn]

Maybe you are looking for a new game, if you have that many rules changes. Pendragon is an awesome knight game or Legend of Five Rings, if you are willing to leave the European feel. DnD does not handle the realism you are looking for very well.