What exactly makes Math hard to some people?

[Mercule]

I was always good at math. I did fractions in my head faster than my 5th grade teacher and had to convince her I wasn't cheating. I worked two chapters ahead in algebra -- without realizing I was two chapters ahead (I was just playing around). When I got to trigonometry, though, I stopped cold. To this day, sine, cosine, etc. will shut me down. When I moved into calculus, I once again excelled -- until they threw trig back into the mix.

How wierd is that?

Since I was a chemical engineering major, I was on the road to some pretty advanced math. It's probably a good thing that I got more interested in political science than chemical engineering. If I hadn't changed majors of my own accord, my grades in math may have forced me to do so, eventually.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Yes trig sucks. But most of the other stuff I'm good at.

But anyway it probably has to do with your DNA and your up bringing.
Nature and Nurture.

And brain theory does not state people should always prefer using one side or the other, nothing is ever always. Most activities require you to use both sides of the brain to an extent. While writing a novel might require creativity (right brain) it will also require logic and an understanding of how to put words together to form intelegible sentences (left brain). Same with alot of other things, drawing, music paticuarly (requires alot of left brain to move those fingers the proper way on an instrument).
D&D has crunch (left brain primary) and fluff (right brain primary). But both bequire use of the other half of the brain as well as requiring each other to play D&D.

 

[Goblyns Hoard]

The wonderful thing about being a genius to the level of Einstein is that they do wierd things with you after you die... like preserve your brain for posterity. And then after they figure out some other things about your brain... like which areas are being used to do the maths (don't ask my which I'm a geneticist not a brain surgeon) they then test your brain to see what it's like.

Turns out that the part of the brain that does math... Einstein's was something like 30% larger than us normal folks. His brain was wired to do maths... go figure.

I'm sure it's not all entirely nature for the rest of us (get a lousy teacher and you get turned off a subject quickly)... but for those that excel at something like this there's going to be a lot of DNA/intrauterine influence which pretty much means you're born that way.

As for me... maths I could do it, but mainly because I could remember the steps and perform the processes easily enough. Forgotten them ALL now so at this point I suck at it, but if I needed to I'm sure I could do it again. Don't ask me to enjoy it, and definitely don't take the calculator away cause I can't do the arithmatic.

 

[robaustin]

First - I'm not anyone exceptional at math, but I am continually appalled at the lack of even basic math skills in the general population. Working on a help desk that supports MS Office - I am often asked how to make the most basic formulas. Things like (a+b)/c. Very basic algebra. I often bring up Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally (the acronyrm for order of operations) so that people will be a bit more clear on things but I get the phone equivalent of blank stares from most folks. I can't say I would be proficient in calc, but I can figure out basic formulas. I know math is pretty much just memorizing formulas and rules but I never took the time to do it, so I'm not proficient in it. So in my case it's probably learning, since I can do basic formulas.

Second - I'm also continually appalled that people can't spell. I can't for the life of me figure out why it's so hard to figure out the spellings of words. I work with a 55 year old guy and when he types the worklogs of cases he constantly misspells thing. I guess the explanation is probably that genetically I'm just predisposed to language. I'm good at spelling, good at pronouncing foreign names (and particular in English pronounciation as well), and such. It must be a natural ability.

So in conclusion, from my experience - combination of learning and natural ability.

Don't get me started on my language pet peeves....they are many...

--*Rob

 

[barsoomcore]

But then again when was the last time you used Shakespear, costal erosion patterns, or the reproduction cycles of bacteria in 'day to day' life. Most of what you learn at school you will never use once you've left education.

If you're not using Shakespeare every day, you just aren't living.



And of course, for a DM, it's ALL grist for the mill, isn't it? Coastal erosion patterns? Sure, I need to know how those work. Bacteria reproduction? Huh, that gives me an idea for a spell that replicates itself...

Keep in mind that "most" of what you learn in school you don't learn in the classroom. School is where we put people who don't know how to behave in society and keep them for the twelve-thirteen years it takes to prove you know the rules. Classes are just things for them to do in the meantime.

Math requires a kind of abstract thinking and some people never seem to learn that "jump" out of the material world into the abstract world of math. They have trouble thinking of numbers as just numbers, and the whole thing seems really pointless and unwieldy to them.

My mom, my sisters and my wife are all like that. They have real trouble working with anything more sophisticated than bookkeeping-type operations. And they're all of them smart, smart women. I don't know if it's in their genes, or the way they were taught or what.

It's a funny old world.

 

[bolen]

I have no idea how someone who likes RPGs can hate math. To me math is the backbone of what the game is. How can you remember all the illogical rules (attacks of opp., what the bonus is to save vs fear ect.) and not understand the beauty of mathmatics. That makes no sense to me.

I teach physics and hear all day that people cant "do" math. What I see is two things

1) A lack of confidence (probrably the fault of those grade school teachers who did not drill you enough as a child)

2) Sloppy work. This is not a put down. again it is the fault of folks who did not beat it into you as a child. Write out every step (dont do it in your head) If you work an algebra problem plug the answer back into the original problem

Practice, practice. If you dont work at it you can't get better.

Again if you play RPGs, I think the abstract reasoning skills are there. You just need to bite the bullet and work at it.

There is no distinction between science and math at this level (at the graduate level they are worlds apart because they attempt to answer different questions). So if you like science, you cant not like math. They are the same.

 

[Umbran]

I have no idea how someone who likes RPGs can hate math. To me math is the backbone of what the game is. How can you remember all the illogical rules (attacks of opp., what the bonus is to save vs fear ect.) and not understand the beauty of mathmatics. That makes no sense to me.

Well, let me try to explain that little phenomenon...

It is a "role-playing game" right? That means that playing of roles has a lot to do with it. And math has darned little to do with the playing of roles in a theatrical sense. You don't need differential equations to understand or perform in Hamlet.

For you, math is the backbone of the game. For folks who enjoy the drama and theatrical side of things more, the backbone is the story, and the math is an annoyance that frequently gets in the way.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I have no idea how someone who likes RPGs can hate math. To me math is the backbone of what the game is. How can you remember all the illogical rules (attacks of opp., what the bonus is to save vs fear ect.) and not understand the beauty of mathmatics. That makes no sense to me.

Except there are no detailed formulas and everything is(mostly) basic addition and subtraction. You don't have to like math to do basic addition and subtraction. (And there is no such thing as beauty of mathmatics )

I agree with Umbran, we don't all come to the game for the math. In fact, I'd doubt that many people at ALL really rely on the math as a backbone as much as other things. Of course, I could be wrong.

I teach physics and hear all day that people cant "do" math. What I see is two things

Many people have said there are these two reasons for people not able to do math, but no one remembers the third. It IS possible to just plain not like math, whether you're good at it or not. Not liking it can easily come off as looking like you just can't do it.

 

[Umbran]

Can't think of anything off the top of my head, but the fact that some things just plain were THIS WAY with no explanation other than 'Because it is' always bothered me.

That's not a trait of artists, in particular. Lots of people askt hat sort of thing in math classes. Good teachers can answer sometimes. Other times, the teacher is sort of stuck, because they way to understand "why" is only describable with even more involved math. The answer to "Why is 1+1=2?" is found a short way into Set Theory, which a kid in Junior high school just isn't going to be able to swallow.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

That's not a trait of artists, in particular. Lots of people askt hat sort of thing in math classes. Good teachers can answer sometimes. Other times, the teacher is sort of stuck, because they way to understand "why" is only describable with even more involved math. The answer to "Why is 1+1=2?" is found a short way into Set Theory, which a kid in Junior high school just isn't going to be able to swallow.

Good point.

I remember there was one thing that was a 'because it is' answer but I can't pinpoint exactly what. It was one of the more complicated things. Could have actually been something dealing with the already mentioned evil trig. I guess it really does depend on your point of view. Math has a way of explaining things in a very definite matter, and getting there it uses a good amount of (what I feel are) assumed facts. I just don't think everything in the universe can be explained off by numbers