What happen if a fire elemental fails to make the jump over a body of water?

[Moon-Lancer]

...and how do you spell "Fallacious" anyway?

if i could spell i would have become a writer instead of a painter.

anyway, back on topic this time really... no really i mean it... I really mean it this time

Actually it think i like the boiling rules a bit better. anyone want to jump in the jacuzzi with me?

 

[Deset Gled]

Exactly.

So: Can Fire elementals cross a lake by walking on the water's surface? Is the water's surface the "impassible barrier" the monster text mentions?

(I doubt it.)

Sure. It seems just a reasonable as the concept of water damaging the elemental, and doesn't have the pesky mountain of potential side effects.

 

[DreadArchon]

For simplicity, sanity, and consistency reasons, I rule that fire elementals are forbidden from crossing water due to mental considerations that cannot be overcome, and that fire elementals are thus not actually harmed by being forcibly submerged (though if this happens, they act as if Turned by the body of water).

 

[Old Gumphrey]

1. D+D has opposite elements? I find no reference to that in the SRD.

SRD doesn't say anything about standing on your head. I guess that means it's impossible even though I've got 15 ranks in Tumble and Balance!

Fire elementals are a special case; Earth elementals are constantly in contact with their mother element. So are air elementals, and (generally) water elementals. If a fire elemental gets thrown into a lake, it's SOL.

If a water elemental is slithering around in the forest and someone bombs it with a fireball I don't see anything wrong with 150% damage. If you're playing a game where the four elements are living things and generally in direct opposition it's really not a stretch. No, it's not RAW, but RAW doesn't say anything about tossing a being MADE OUT OF FIRE into a lake. Go throw a lit match into a bathtub and see what happens...I bet you don't even have to do it to guess what happens. It's not "floating across because it's impassable".

Which is another load of baloney. If you don't have a fly speed, you fall down go boom, you don't skate across stuff that will kill you. I don't see PCs claiming they can hover across a volcanic lake of lava because it's "impassable".

 

[el-remmen]

Gumphrey,


I have edited your post.

You are relatively new around here, so perhaps you don't know, but ENworld is not the place to use language that disparages a person or idea by calling it "gay".

Thanks.

el-mod.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

Just for fun and flavor, I'd totally be willing to houserule that a fire elemental can walk across the surface of water, and here's why:

Fire elementals are really, really, really light. Even a huge one only weighs 8 pounds. I'm absolutely willing to believe that a fire elemental attempting to put his foot down on some water can produce enough steam to stay out of it, like a firewalker can create a barrier of steam between their feet and the hot coals simply through sweat evaporating. The effect with a fire elemental would be much greater, and the amount of upward force needed by the steam would be significantly less.

The caveat I would make to this is that the water would have to be calm. If he got hit by a wave, all bets are off.

 

[Nail]

Sure. It seems just a reasonable as the concept of water damaging the elemental, and doesn't have the pesky mountain of potential side effects.

Going from the context of the monster entry, I'd say "impassible barrier" means "something over which the elemental cannot cross". IOW, it's not the air/water boundary we're talking about, but the land/water boundary.

Given that, I'd say that something BAD should happen to a fire elemental that somehow manages to cross the land/water boundary. Damage sounds like a reasonable interpretation; being forced to return ("shunted") to land is another.

And again: there really isn't much in the way of a "pesky mountain of potential side effects", but I guess YMMV.

 

[anon]

My ruling: Fire elemental lands on water, creates a lot of steam, the energy required to do so is lost from the fire elemental in the form of hit point damage. The fire elemental takes 1d6 points of damage per 5 foot square as it moves back to solid ground. I would probably have this happen at the start of the elemental's next turn, unless the elemental still had movement left after the jump.

For me the lava rules seem punitive and inappropriate since the fire elemental is less dense than (would float upon) the water.

The situation seems most similar to getting caught in solid material when using one of the various translocation spells (e.g. Ethereal Jaunt)--hence the 1d6 per 5ft square.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

The situation seems most similar to getting caught in solid material when using one of the various translocation spells (e.g. Ethereal Jaunt)--hence the 1d6 per 5ft square.

Is it most similar to that, or to a fire based creature being caught in a water elemental plane? In that case, they take 1d10 damage per round.

 

[Hypersmurf]

1. D+D has opposite elements? I find no reference to that in the SRD.

It's not expressed as 'opposite elements', but the Ring of Elemental Command places Fire/Water and Earth/Air in opposition:

The possessor of a ring of elemental command takes a saving throw penalty as follows:

Air –2 against earth-based effects
Earth –2 against air- or electricity-based effects
Fire –2 against water- or cold-based effects
Water –2 against fire-based effects

-Hyp.