What happened to the Racial Substitution Levels?

[Samurai]

Anyone else recall the 4e talk about how Races would gain powers at later levels, and how they would have Racial Substitution powers for certain classes, so that a Dwarf Fighter would gain different powers than an Elven Fighter, for instance? What ever happened to that? I don't see anything like that in the books, though there are a few Racial Feats you can take for certain races.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

It was cut and replaced with just racial feats.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

They talked about that for 4e?

I thought it was only a 3.5 idea that died a slow and well earned death.

 

[Vanuslux]

Racial substitution classes are definitely something I'm breathing a sigh of relief about them not being in 4th Edition (yet).

 

[Surgoshan]

They got rid of those early because they had a lot of trouble balancing them.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

They talked about that for 4e?

I thought it was only a 3.5 idea that died a slow and well earned death.

Our early designs put race on par with paragon paths and epic destinies as character elements that would be secondary to class for ten levels at a time. Race supplied features and powers from levels 1-10, paragon paths took over at levels 11-20, and epic destinies capped characters off at levels 21-30.

One drawback of our original “race offers powers at levels 1-10” approach was that it made race abilities less significant at higher levels. Another drawback was that our classes were already plenty rich. We realized that we didn’t need race, path and destiny competing directly with the class-based power lists that were the heart of the design.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080502a

 

[FireLance]

On the other hand, I can certainly see the possibility of race-specific powers appearing in future race books. Possibly, the extra effectiveness of the powers could be balanced by paying a feat to access them (like multiclassing). In fact, the multiclassing rules might be a good way to represent race-flavored classes in 4e.

 

[hectorse]

On the other hand, I can certainly see the possibility of race-specific powers appearing in future race books. Possibly, the extra effectiveness of the powers could be balanced by paying a feat to access them (like multiclassing). In fact, the multiclassing rules might be a good way to represent race-flavored classes in 4e.

Exactly...

As a supplement paragorn and epic destiny something along the lines of:

Fighter -> Hammer of Moradin -> Aspect of Moradin

Sounds like a very exciting path, but not something made for the core rulebooks

 

[Simon Marks]

Also, not race specific.

Anybody could worship Moradin, and in fact as the diety of blacksmiths an Eladrin Smith would have as much reason to take that path as any dwarf.

 

[hectorse]

Well, I was thinking about the lines of the aspect taking the shape of a Humongous Dwarf, but it's more about the concept of being more "racist".

Like an aspect of your race