What happens if a paladin gives up his Paldinhood?

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I guess I just have a strong opinion on oathbreaking.

Multiclassing while still keeping his oaths and "resign[ing] from Paldinhood because he didn`t want or couldn`t bear the burden any longer or believe he could follow the path of duty" are very different things. As the question was stated, he's setting aside his oaths, not merely pursuing other methods of accomplishing the same thing. An OATH powerful enough to grant the divine powers of a paladin should not be dropped lightly. IMO, it would have consequences for the character even if he did it with the blessing of his god. What god would set the precedent of just giving power to someone who broke an oath to him?

 

[Skarp Hedin]

Yeah, it'd definitely depend a lot on circumstances, of course.

Sir Larry: I'm very sorry, Osiris, but it's just too much for me to go on. I must resign from service as your anointed knight.

Osiris: Dang.

Is very different from:

Sir Moe: I'm very sorry, Osiris, but it's just too much for me to go on. May I have your permission to resign from service as your anointed knight?

Osiris: Okay.

See, Larry tells Osiris what's up, and Moe asks nicely to be released from his vows. Assuming Moe's been a great paladin but he's had a nervous breakdown or something.. well, that's okay. Things change, people change, no reason to dump Moe out in the cold just because he's got a problem. Maybe with a rest he'll be able to come back, maybe not. Either way, so long as Moe remains a dedicated follower, active worshipper, and etc of Osiris, why shouldn't Osiris give him a reward? Like a pension, if you will.

The nature of paladinhood in individual campaigns, of course, also heavily influences this.

 

[Chimera]

If he has no intention of ever returning to the Order, then I'd say that he becomes a Warrior (NPC class). It is essentially a Fighter without the Feats, which is what a Paladin without the abilities and spells is.

 

[Sodalis]

the reason a paladin is so powerful (lots o skills, saves, BAB, HP, mount, class abil) is that he has a strict code of conduct. There is a specific way he is expected to act, and if he strays from teh path (not abandon it completely) he loses all of his abilities.

When you offer the player the ability to level up in paladin,and then drop the oath while still retaining all his abil and mount, you are effectively making him another "ranger" characetr where everyone takes a level just for the lay on hands and immune to disease...

he is receiving a gift from teh gods because of his devotion to the code and his actions of good. Once he strays, do you think the gods (all knowing) will still grant him anymore powers?

Smae for a cleric- since he prays every morning to a god for spells, why should the God grant him spells if he is not acting as the deity wishes. That si why cleric spells (though not as flashy as wiz spells) are hell of a lot more powerful in some respects.

 

[Kevin Wilson]

Well, what about another scenario, where the god has done/commanded an act abhorrant to the paladin, and the paladin has quit in disgust, basically breaking his holy avenger +5 over his knee as he goes?

Just curious, as it has some bearing on a setting I've been designing in my spare time.

 

[Voadam]

Canis,

I don't have my PH in front of me but I thought in 3e paladins could be from different backgrounds and backstories, not just knights who dedicate themselves to a LG god. I thought they even made provisions for nonchurch paladins who just serve goodness. Also I thought there was enough room in the concept for people who do not seek out paladinhood but are called on to fight evil. I can see a character who does that and completes his quest not wanting to continually bear the weight of the world on his shoulders and wanting to resign from paladinhood because he doesn't want to bear the burden any longer. I don't see oathtaking as a necessary prerequisite for paladinhood.

Under the rules, a LG paladin who does no evil and does not violate the code can "resign the office" and keep his powers. If circumstances place him in a position where inaction would grossly violate the code then he can lose his powers for that inaction, but as a general matter, saying I'm tired, I'm retiring should not get you stripped of your powers under the rules.

Think of the hermit who goes off to the desert wastes to hide out until one day he is called upon to help out a princess in distress so he takes a young apprentice and others back on a quest against evil, and guess what, having stayed a good man, he still has his jedi, I mean paladin powers.

In your campaign where to become a paladin you must swear an oath to a god and he is powering the paladin rather than the paladins adherence to the force of good, then it is fine for the god to do what he wants.


"resigns from Paldinhood because he didn`t want or believe he couldn`t bear the burden longer" Does not imply oathbreaking to me, however.

 

[Voadam]

Nitpicking

the reason a paladin is so powerful (lots o skills, .

Paladin (2 + Int Modifier)

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Well, what about another scenario, where the god has done/commanded an act abhorrant to the paladin, and the paladin has quit in disgust, basically breaking his holy avenger +5 over his knee as he goes?

Just curious, as it has some bearing on a setting I've been designing in my spare time.

Interesting. If the power of a paladin comes from the gods, he would lose his powers, but another diety may accept his service and restore him because the fact that he was willing to put his principles ahead of his powers speaks well of him. If, on the other hand, your setting leaves open the possibility that Paladins can receive their powers from the abstract concept of "Good" rather than from dieties, he has simply liberated himself from the god. He might even be worthy of great quests and powers because of that selfless act.

 

[Sodalis]

Kevin Wilson:
Well, what about another scenario, where the god has done/commanded an act abhorrant to the paladin, and the paladin has quit in disgust, basically breaking his holy avenger +5 over his knee as he goes?

Just curious, as it has some bearing on a setting I've been designing in my spare time.

thats what always irked me about paladins. How come they ALWAYS have to LG? I would think that a person who has the divine favoring of an evil god will have just as much (if not more) power as a LG paladin who worships Pelor.

Why cant Hextor have paladins, or Nerull have some? why just Heironeous...

And teh code should be a contract between the paladin and his deity. and if either of them change- things will happen.

IMO- In your situation, i feel sorry for the paladin becaue he did nothing wrong, but the Deity is the one that changed. And since the paladin no longer has the divine favor of a God, he loses all powers... sorry.

But there are greater implications for this alignment change. In deities and Demigods, there is a section that states that a God fulfills a specific role- either based on alignment or faith. If you rpantheon is based on alignment and every alignment has one Deity, having one change alignment means that there will be conflict between him and the deity that was already there. The winner will be the new deity, and the loser- either cast down as a commoner, or resumes the old deities position. or option #3 would be that the former post remains open until someone can assume it.

But a deity CANNOT change alignments because of his followers. A titan has innate powers, where a God receives his power from his worshippers. Once he changes alignment, the followers lose all their power, and no longer believe in that deity. he loses hispower, and is now a commoner...

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

"resigns from Paldinhood because he didn`t want or believe he couldn`t bear the burden longer" Does not imply oathbreaking to me, however.

As someone else said, this varies with the nature of paladinhood in one's campaign. I've always looked on it as a call to fight evil. And if you're not out there in the world, actively fighting evil, you're not a paladin. It's one thing to be aged, or crippled. If you have a REASON not to do your duty is one thing, though you should still be doing what you can to help the poor, etc. Simply saying "I can't take it anymore" is copping out. It's against the notions of valor on which paladinhood is built. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

btw- All this is just my opinion. There's plenty of room in the world of 3e for different interpretations.