What if Earth really is the center of the universe?

[Janx]

You realize that history rather shows otherwise? There's nothing "instinctual" about it. The western world had to be dragged kicking and screaming to a Heliocentric view.



Yeah, tell that to Galileo. Copernicus gave us the math of Heliocentrism back in 1543. A century later, Galileo died under arrest for supporting that model. It didn't really start gaining traction until 1700 or so. There's nothing at all "natural", instinctive, instant or automatic about accepting any particular model. Never underestimate the human ability to deny the obvious.



And, in fact, that's what Europeans did prior to Copernicus and Galileo. The math's a bear, but it can be done, yes.

Well, that crosses the line into religion a bit. Sailors knew the earth was round because they could see it.

Once enough humans could SEE the solar system model, it becomes self ordering that things look pretty cockeyed with the earth in the middle and everything else forming circles around the sun over there on the left.

Obviously, you're right that some number of humans chose not to accept that fact, because it contradictd their notion of the universe and their credibility over other humans. But couple hundred years of wrongness is a pittance in the scope of time.

My point still remains, once the human brain accepts that the earth revolves around the sun, along with other planets, when you draw that out, the brain will instinctively put the SUN at the center, not the Earth.

It's like an OCD compulsion to line up the crooked dominoes on the table. Artistically, a solar system diagram with the Earth in the center, and with all the other planets and Sun drawn in with their orbits will look off-kilter and humans will be inclined to redraw it with the sun at the center of the paper. The brain puts the center as the point between other things that form orbits. Something that orbits another body tends not to be accepted as the center.

I have no clue what folks would do in a binary star formation where they kind of orbited each other (or orbited an invisibile centerpoint). I suspect, folks would interpret the centerpoint of the orbits as the center of the solar system.

 

[Umbran]

Well, that crosses the line into religion a bit. Sailors knew the earth was round because they could see it.

Given that they didn't know about gravity yet, understanding the shape of the planet and understanding orbits were separate things.

Once enough humans could SEE the solar system model, it becomes self ordering that things look pretty cockeyed with the earth in the middle and everything else forming circles around the sun over there on the left.

Go look at the dates - 150 years from Copernicus to something like wider acceptance. It was not as clean as you make it sound.

But couple hundred years of wrongness is a pittance in the scope of time.

Dude, all of human civilization is a pittance in "the scope of time". While that sounds poetic, I don't see how it is relevant. You talked about it being "instinctual" - that means acceptance should have been automatic, like a reflex. It wasn't.

It's like an OCD compulsion to line up the crooked dominoes on the table. Artistically, a solar system diagram with the Earth in the center, and with all the other planets and Sun drawn in with their orbits will look off-kilter and humans will be inclined to redraw it with the sun at the center of the paper. The brain puts the center as the point between other things that form orbits. Something that orbits another body tends not to be accepted as the center.

Again, a century and a half of history argues against you - I'm sorry, but the pretty picture was not as convincing to astronomers at the time as you seem to make it out. His peers generally ignored Copernicus. It wasn't until Newton's Laws (which could be applied to ordinary objects, and also to heavenly bodies) came along that the model really got wider acceptance. And Galileo died a year (almost to the day) before Newton was born.

And it isn't/wasn't just a religious issue - humans, in general, *resist* having their notions of the universe changed. There is no instinct to accept elegance, no OCD, "I see this neat model, and accept it must be so!" The desire to accept the cleaner, mathematically simpler model is a learned behavior of more modern times and philosophies.

 

[Agamon]

If you're Canadian, you already know that Toronto is the actual center of the universe.

 

[Janx]

Again, a century and a half of history argues against you - I'm sorry, but the pretty picture was not as convincing to astronomers at the time as you seem to make it out. His peers generally ignored Copernicus. It wasn't until Newton's Laws (which could be applied to ordinary objects, and also to heavenly bodies) came along that the model really got wider acceptance. And Galileo died a year (almost to the day) before Newton was born.

I think we're arguing 2 different things. I am not talking about showing a picture to somebody and convincing them that their understanding of the world is scientifically wrong. That's so bloody complicated and difficult due to the crappy nature of how most humans work.

I'm talking about the auto-ordering behavior of the brain barring such mental contradictions.

Show somebody a picture of a dartboard with the bullseye off frame and ask them to pick the middle. Odds are good they will point out the bullseye or the center of the picture itself, depending on their interpretation. They will not choose Triple 20 as the center because visually it is not.

The same is true for the solar system. Someone who accepts that the earth and other planets orbit the sun will be more inclined to draw it with the sun in the center, not the earth.

 

[El Mahdi]

This is just an idea I had for some fun thinking. What if Earth is the center of the universe? Meaning, what if we aren't just part of a grander world, aren't just part of a bigger picture. Everything in the universe is actually window dressing or plots or whatever specifically for humans of Earth. What would this fact mean, how would it play out?

It would mean we're playing in a campaign developed by one rat bastard of a DM...

 

[Orius]

Actually, more specifically *I* am the centre of the universe. I don't like to brag about it, though.

I do though.

 

[Herschel]

This is just an idea I had for some fun thinking. What if Earth is the center of the universe? Meaning, what if we aren't just part of a grander world, aren't just part of a bigger picture. Everything in the universe is actually window dressing or plots or whatever specifically for humans of Earth. What would this fact mean, how would it play out?

Bullgrit

Enough ignorant people think that to justify their human arrogance that it's patently false. It's kind of like the 15-minute adventuring day issue, because some haven't seen it they think it doesn't exist and so their experience is the only experience.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

What if Earth really is the centreof the Universe?

Hm....Via Cloaca Universalis?
Hey it would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Enough ignorant people think that to justify their human arrogance that it's patently false. It's kind of like the 15-minute adventuring day issue, because some haven't seen it they think it doesn't exist and so their experience is the only experience.

Or just as equally because some people have seen a 15-minute adventuring day issue they think it is a universal issue.

See what I did there?

In other words, please don't try to drag your personal beefs about D&D issues into this discussion - passive-aggressive insinuations about the arrogance/ignorance of people with a different view to you is going to end up with you leaving ENworld for good if you're not careful.

Thanks.

 

[Herschel]

It was a joke, hence the smiley, because of all the consternation about it in the DDN thread(s).

For the record, I've never said it was a "universal truth" (meaning everyone experiences it) either.

Mod Note: Everyone, please - if a moderator posts in colored text, and you want to discuss it, take it to e-mail or PM. Don't argue with a moderator about it in-thread. Those are the rules, and we expect you to stick by them. Thanks. ~Umbran