What if everyone was a sorcerer (gestalt concept)?

[Aberzanzorax]

Along the groups of lists, I was thinking that might be a good idea (and save a lot of time DMing).

However, in terms of worldbuilding, I was wondering if people got to select their spells or if they "manifested", perhaps somewhat randomly, though along similar paths?

So not every farmer would know "create water", one might know magic missile, and apart from killling the odd wolf, finds his power mostly useless.


Of course, as people's powers developed, you'd see a natural selection of people into professions that suited their gifts (so you'd be unlikely to see a ruler of a country with the path of lesser creation, create water, leomund's tiny hut, etc.).

I think it'd be fun as a DM to roll randomly for spells, especially for the low level people that players encounter (even throughout their adventuring careers), and to think (as DM or player) about the hairdresser with modify memory or the butler with shocking grasp.

 

[TanisFrey]

I would almost run this game as a surprise twist on the players.

You let them make characters as normal without telling them about the gestalt nature of characters but tell them that magic is very common and most NPC have some. When everyone is finished with character creation then tell them to add sorcerer as a gestalt class.

I would also see that any wizard, worth their salt, in the world will eventually become a Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage.

 

[Mort]

Architecture and fortifications would be drastically changed as well, no need for high walls if "everyone" can "levitate" or "fly" over them. Building would most likely get taller as arcane devices allowed moving both weight and mass in a more efficient manner. And what about mass transit? I think you should probably look into the Eberron world for some ideas about "magic as technology" and vice versa.

The current (4e) campaign I'm running is set in Eberron, so I'm quite familier with the low pervasive magic is quite common (which has many impacts) while big powerful magic is rare. The current campaign I'm running focusses primarily on The Church of the Silver Flame and eventually political wrangling etc. - so I will be going for a completely different, probably more exploratory tone in my next game.

 

[Mort]

I would almost run this game as a surprise twist on the players.

You let them make characters as normal without telling them about the gestalt nature of characters but tell them that magic is very common and most NPC have some. When everyone is finished with character creation then tell them to add sorcerer as a gestalt class.

I would also see that any wizard, worth their salt, in the world will eventually become a Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage.

I think wizards, in this type of world, might be looked on with extreme suspicion for their "unnatural" approach - might even be persecuted and killed (certainly there would be evidence of this in the history of the world).

 

[Hautamaki]

An alternate way to run this idea, and perhaps lessen your bookkeeping and keep magic from totally running out of control, might be to have all classes run as normal except that all classes have access to a feat that allows them to choose and cast a single sorcerer spell of appropriate level (compared to the level at which they take the feat; so a third level character can take a second level spell as their feat)

 

[NoWayJose]

Think of Charisma as the ability of a creature to impose its will on others, sometimes including the world itself.

As for the Charisma tie to spellcasting - well Charisma is supposed to be the ability to exert ones will on others (unlike wisdom which is personal will) - so it fits for me, not perfectly - but haven't yet thought of anything better (then again I don't plan on implementing this for quite some time so I have plenty of time to think about it!).

Ya, the distinction between Wis = personal willpower vs Cha = imposing will on others kinda lacks credibility for me.

Your force of will shouldn't automatically crumble to pieces just because it's turned outward rather than inward. I can imagine cases where a strong-willed person is not inclined to impose on others, but when there's a true conflict of will (ie., I need to kill him so that he doesn't kill me), a truly strong-willed person doesn't suddenly lose it.

In terms of sorcery, not all sorcery powers are offensive (ie., imposing your will against their defense). Even if they were, and assuming that willpower is used to shape raw magic for a certain function or tool (and not for the intent of the function or tool), I don't see why personal willpower (ie. Wisdom) shapes a force staff for parrying, but Charisma (willpower on others) shapes the exact same force staff for attacking.

 

[MACLARREN]

We did this once in our Black Company campaign and it was probably the campaign I have had the most fun with ever. Our concept was a little different. The available classes were, fighter, ranger, barbarian, rogue, scout, Sorc (He chose 3 paths for his spell list) and a gunner class that used firearms. We had no clerics or wizards and sorcs were rare. We had the Sorcs from the books as NPC's and the undead lords ruling had supernatural stuff as well.

The way we did it was limiting spell choices to each of us and we could determine how high to take the casting ability ourselves. We were limited to 6th level spells and each of the following paths had a spell list to choose from and you could only take one path to choose from. We had different paths that you could choose to follow- White (Healing spells and the like), Red (Fire based spells), Green- (Fly, Buff spells etc), Blue (lightning based and the like), and Black (Necormancy spells). Spell slots scaled like Sorc but you had to have Charisma high enough to cast each level of spells. So we had one character that was a Barb and was only ever going to cast 1st level spells.

I played a fighter that used a Glaive and followed the Black spell casting school. Nothing like moving in to battle and casting a blindness at your foe. This worked great for this campaign but may not work for all. Great times though and one of the best I played in until now as we are now going deep in a Midnight campaign with many house rules and best system ever that we developed form the best of D&D, Conan, Pathfinder and Trailblazer.

 

[the Jester]

Ya, the distinction between Wis = personal willpower vs Cha = imposing will on others kinda lacks credibility for me.

Your force of will shouldn't automatically crumble to pieces just because it's turned outward rather than inward. I can imagine cases where a strong-willed person is not inclined to impose on others, but when there's a true conflict of will (ie., I need to kill him so that he doesn't kill me), a truly strong-willed person doesn't suddenly lose it.

In terms of sorcery, not all sorcery powers are offensive (ie., imposing your will against their defense). Even if they were, and assuming that willpower is used to shape raw magic for a certain function or tool (and not for the intent of the function or tool), I don't see why personal willpower (ie. Wisdom) shapes a force staff for parrying, but Charisma (willpower on others) shapes the exact same force staff for attacking.

I'd say that the ultimate exertion of one's Charisma is imposing his will on the world around him, e.g. by working sorcery.

Surely we've all known people that were good at manipulating others yet had no powers of discernment or ability to resist a good argument? That is one example of high-Cha and low-Wis. The opposite (high Wis and low Cha) might be someone who was perceptive, calm, well-balanced in their behavior and highly self-aware but unable to talk a drunk into going to a party.

 

[NoWayJose]

I'd say that the ultimate exertion of one's Charisma is imposing his will on the world around him, e.g. by working sorcery.

Surely we've all known people that were good at manipulating others yet had no powers of discernment or ability to resist a good argument? That is one example of high-Cha and low-Wis. The opposite (high Wis and low Cha) might be someone who was perceptive, calm, well-balanced in their behavior and highly self-aware but unable to talk a drunk into going to a party.

The high Wis low Cha sorcerer wouldn't need to talk a drunk into a going to a party. The high Wis low Cha sorcerer should use willpower to call a Bigby's Boot into existence and kick the drunk guy into the behind. The low Wis high Cha sorcerer might be better at literally enchanting the drunk guy with a honey coated tongue, but the blanket claim that high Cha = good sorcerer is illogical for me. In terms of fiction first vs rules first, I know full well that Cha = sorcerer was created in 3E primarily to fill in a slot for an ability that needed filling, and not primarily because sorcerers need to be more charismatic than anyone else. And one could argue one way or another, I guess. But if a DM is creating a world where everyone's a sorcerer, I think this Charisma inconsistency becomes a bit more obvious than otherwise.

 

[NoWayJose]

However, in terms of worldbuilding, I was wondering if people got to select their spells or if they "manifested", perhaps somewhat randomly, though along similar paths?

If, as per the OP, wizards are shunned for an unnatural approach to magic, then I think that spells should manifest (at birth? at puberty?) in each NPC according to unknown (but widely debated) mechanisms (the will of gods, bloodlines, random mutations). (For PCs, players get to choose, but assume the PC was destined that way). If all this were true, then it would justify why wizards are shunned for calling upon abomination magic that doesn't occur naturally from within.