What if Rauise Dead/Ressurection was an evil spell...

[Tonguez]

Raise Dead.Res is too easy in DnD and we had a discussion about it recently which got me thinking

What if Raise Dead was considered Evil - afterall it is dealing with forces of Death and Darkness

What if those who used it found their alignments slipping towards evil, what if Paladins were required to stop all attempts at Ressurection, what if those who had been raised were riviled as 'Abominations' and no better than Zombies, what about whole LG cults dedicated to the eradication of those who had been raised?

How would this affect PCs - okay we can raise him - but that IS an act of evil...

 

[Cerubus Dark]

Raise Dead.Res is too easy in DnD and we had a discussion about it recently which got me thinking

What if Raise Dead was considered Evil - afterall it is dealing with forces of Death and Darkness

What if those who used it found their alignments slipping towards evil, what if Paladins were required to stop all attempts at Ressurection, what if those who had been raised were riviled as 'Abominations' and no better than Zombies, what about whole LG cults dedicated to the eradication of those who had been raised?

How would this affect PCs - okay we can raise him - but that IS an act of evil...

Some how I think this would fall under the way each world would see it. I currently have 4 major kingdoms in my world. I have one kingdom devoted to Necromancy and the quest for Immortality. They would never question the use of such a spell to continue their work, But the Kingdom of the Palidins would stop anyone trying such a foolish action. After all they are trying to "cheat" death and that is wrong. No matter how good or kind the person was they must die when their time is up. And then there is the kingdom of the Dark Empire. The would seek to slaughter anyone who utters a word of magic. The final kingdom would shrug their shoulders and continue their watch against the oncoming hoarde of Undead.

Then again its all about how your DM or you as the DM see to use the spells and their actions. If bringing back the dead is an evil action then your word as DM is law, its evil and so forth.

 

[Crothian]

There is an orginazation in Touched by the Gods that believes people brought back from the dead are the most hidious of all types of Undead as they can interact without anyone knowing the wiser. I suggest looking into them, it's a very cool orginazation and the rest of the book is great, also.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Definately a cool idea for a much grittier feel...

But it might create a bit of a slippery slope...if bringing people back from the dead is evil, at what point are they considered dead? Can you heal someone brought below 0 hp? Can you heal them at all (as that is preventing death, as well)? Would removing terminal illnesses count? What about restoring conciousness? Might the society go so far as to say that waking somebody who is asleep may be preventing them from "crossing over"? Or if that person is in a coma or something?

It may also depend upon the afterlife and the gods of your campaign...if the afterlife is a holy place, filled with goodness and light, coming back from the dead may be the last thing you want to do. If it's a place of torture or a sort of purgatory, maybe bringing people back is actually a good thing, as it gives them a chance to attone while halting their suffering now.

Truly, many views can exist. A world where resurrection was evil definately puts darker overtones on it. Cool idea.

I also like the organization that thinks of resurrected people as Undead....they might be finding their way into my campaign, soon...^_^

 

[mmadsen]

But it might create a bit of a slippery slope...if bringing people back from the dead is evil, at what point are they considered dead?

This should be a slippery slope as you describe, and it might even remain that way "in game", but the rules spell it all out pretty clearly. (Not that we can't ignore them.)

How about if the only way to learn Raise Dead is by first learning (and using) Animate Dead, then Reanimation (from Oriental Adventures), then Raise Dead? Even if Raise Dead isn't evil, it sure seems a lot less "good" and lot more spooky when it's tied to Animate Dead.

(Reanimation brings someone back from "dead" to "mostly dead", semi-coherent, one hit point, etc.)

 

[Gossamerblade]

Dealing with death and darkness isn't necessarily evil, just negative. Positive and negative forces don't automatically correlate to good and evil. Light or dark magical forces are just tools to achieve a result.

Rather than making Raise/Res. spells (and those who've been raised) evil, I like the idea of having other consequences, in addition to the loss of level or con. I see most of these consequences as being mental problems or disturbing special abilities, but they should be up to the GM and tailored to the character, party, or setting.

 

[Cheiromancer]

...I see most of these consequences as being mental problems or disturbing special abilities, but they should be up to the GM and tailored to the character, party, or setting.

ooh! That's a great idea!

What kind of "disturbing special abilities" might these be?

 

[mmadsen]

What kind of "disturbing special abilities" might these be?

"I see dead people." That would be a disturbing special ability.

 

[Deadguy]

Raise Dead is Dangerous!

I just wanted to throw an idea into the ring. I quite like mmadsen's idea of the study of Raise Dead being associated with Animate Dead and similar types of magic, and I may have to look into incorporating that into my setting. But I just wanted to mention how I have carefully worked some ideas into my own Shattered World game:

First a little background: the Shattered World is atypical in planar terms. There are no multiple Outer Planes, only the Realms of the Dead, found on the source of Negative Energy, Darkheart. Death follows the very earliest human model - that the place of the dead is a cold one, of ashes and lamentation. And it applies to everyone! There is no escaping this for the vast majority of humanity, it is just a fact. Darkheart is also teh home of the Lords of Undeath, beings that have bought a little comfort in the afterlife, in return for an insatiable hunger for the living.

So, in this model, Raise Dead isn't Evil, indeed some people argue that it is even Good to bring people out of there! Of course some would argue that it is both UnLawful (it mightn't be pleasant, but it is where humanity is destined to go) and unnatural. However, into this mix add that to Raise Dead requires opening a conduit to Darkheart. It is something to which the Lords of Undeath are exquisitely attuned, and they can try and use such a conduit to ride into the world of the living, in order to feed! Of course, they don't succeed every time, but often enough that the magic, whilst not Evil, does have moral consequences. Hence for most people, Raise Dead is regretfully set aside... there are too many risks for the remainder of the deceased's family to make it overall worthwhile (let alone the costs!).

I put this forward as a rejoinder to the notion of making this spell Evil in order to limit access to it. I suggest that we can build myth and tangible difficulties around this spell that limit it, without distorting the natural structure of the game, whereby helping other people is naturally a Good act (okay perhaps morally Neutral depending on your motivations, but you get the idea!)

 

[Atticus_of_Amber]

I cause characters to advance one age category whenever tehy come back from the dead. For details see here