What inspired the D&D magic rules and do you like it?

[Carnifex]

I'm toying with using several different systems to represent a style of magic more akin to thaumaturgy in China Mievilles Bas-Lag stories, and to represent the 'potentially unlimited no. of spells but tiring' effect of magic common to many novels.

A simple system to start from: Whenever a spellcaster casts a spell, they make a Fortitude save (DC = 5 + spell level, perhaps?). On a failure they become fatigued. If they are already fatigued, they become exhausted. If they are already exhausted, they fall unconscious.

For that nasty-result-of-spell-energy-not-going-off-right China Mieville-style thing (as seen in The Scar, when a character comes across the bodies of two thaumaturge guards who were killed in the middle of spellcasting - the spell energy had been summoned and needed to go somewhere, even if the caster loses control of it, and the guards innards had basically ruptured from all the uncontrolled force running through them), have a failed Concentration check for a spell due to defensive casting or an attack of opportunity result in not only a failed spell but an additional 1d6 points of damage per spell level inflicted on the caster.

Possibly even allow a caster the opportunity to make a Concentration check rather than a Fortitude check whenever they cast a spell, but if they fail, rather than becoming fatigued they suffer damage. Not sure how to justify this last bit other than to provide more options though

 

[satori01]

I really like the Arcana Unearthed spell system by Monte Cook, similiar in flavor to regular D&D, but with more flexibility.
Things I love about it:
1) A single spell list that all classes use. In AU there is no distincition between divine or arcane magic, there is just magic.
The spell list is divided into simple, complex, and exotic. Most classes cast simple spells, one the Magister, have access to simple and complex spells. Exotic spells are just that rare spells.

What I love best about this is that there are feats you can take that develop your character thematicaly and allow you to gain access to spells of a higher list catergory. Thus a character that takes the Energy Mage Fire feat, can call themselves a Fire Mage, will gain access to fire spells on either the complex or exotic list, and gain a +1d6 to damage with fire spells. Much better than the advice in Magic of Faerun book that said most fire mages where just casters focusing on flamming evocation spells. I like sensible balanced rules with flavor in them

2) Every spell has a diminished or Heightened version that one can cast. Thus knowing a spell really means knowing 3 interelated version of the spell. In AU the Fireball spell is Sorecerous Blast which is also a third level spell. Thus a Magister can cast a diminished Sorcerous Blast as a second level spell, but instead of a blast range it becomes a ranged touch atack. The Heightened version turns the d6s into D8s.

The system is very robust, since it is really just a modified version of the standard spell casting in D&D but adds a lot of functionality and flavor.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'm starting to sound like a HARP whore, but here goes - I really like the way HARP does spellcasting.

It's true: Those who HARP are annoying meddlers


The system you describe isn't really to my liking. I like my spells to be a different mechanic. I was thinking about a "building block"-like system once. A spell would consist of several components, a little like the spell seeds in epic magic. A fireball would be evocation and fire (maybe evo3/fire 2 or something like that). There would be major and minor elements, and you'd get X elements per spellcaster level. So if you have evo 6, fire 6, cold 6, you could use them to cast fireball, cone of cold, delayed blast fireball, agannazar's, and so on. I haven't done much about that system, though.

 

[Von Ether]

We talking about the guy who switched his system from all d6s to several dice sizes simply so didn't have to separate out the d6s out of the assorted dice baggies he got from his vendor. G.G. is probably a man of practicality who has a big love for verbose fiction.

In all odds, he invented the system first. He then claimed it was inspired by J.V. since he wanted to promote his favorite author as well as curry favor with what he thought was his target audience. Getting to write his own version of such tales in DnD tie-in novels later was just cream on top.

Vance himself used the concept only when it suited his stories, not a moment longer.

Prepare, memorize doesn’t matter which, I’m not a fan of the system.

 

[Gez]

So why can't a mage just simply spend the time needed to trully cast a spell from his spell book, but NOT memorise it, whenever he has time? As it isn't being memorised, he can spend the 10 to twenty minutes reading it from the book and casting it without having to worry about spell slots right? or am I just seeing this from the wrong perspective here?

A wizard needs at least 15 minutes to prepare a spell, then most usually one round to cast it.

Anyway, if the wizard is OK with needing 151+ rounds in spellcasting before any magical effect is achieved, he can keep all his spell slots free and just incant from the spellbook.

But as he can prepare a lot of spells at the same time, it's better to fill most of the slots with spells prepared on the morning, leaving only maybe one spell slot per level, at most, when the unexpected arise.

But however you do, you still can't need one spell slot for each spell. And you need a rest of 8 hours to replenish your spell slots.

 

[pdkoning]

I'm starting to sound like a HARP whore, but here goes - I really like the way HARP does spellcasting. It's all based on skill points. So, you allocate as many skill points as you want to into "arcane bolt", for example. The more ranks you have in it, the more you can "meta-magic" the spell effect. So, by expending more points (up the ranks you have in the spell) you can extend the range, extend the damage, extend the duration, etc. So, even a high level wizard in HARP would really only have maybe a dozen spells, but they could cast 20th level versions of magic missile that would kick serious arse.
(...SNIP....)

This kind of skill system has been applied to some Computer RPGs. I believe Divine Divinity has it, and if I remember it correctly, Morrowind too.
It seems a nice system, but it does not have the great diversity of spells the current D&D magic system has, but I think I like it.

 

[Narfellus]

The HARP system mentioned above sounds good to me, i've never tried it. I would love to see multiple magic systems make it into a new version of DnD, including the tried and true Vancian system for anyone who wants it. I think what most people want is more flexibility with their metamagic without such outrageous costs that it is unfeasible, or just not worth in in lieu of other better feats to pick. Then again, maybe metamagic should be an ingrained part of magic by default, without needing a feat at all. I like that idea too.

 

[Krieg]

The biggest argument in favor of spell slots as a system is that they are extremely easy to learn & use. Simplicity does have some advantages.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I've thought that the current way 3E does preparing spells is sort of like the idea of "Hanging" spells from Zelazny's Amber series, as it was described to me. I've never read the Amber books, does anyone who has get this perception?

It is very, very similar.

But then, I've always thought that D&D magic (even before 3.X) and Amber were very close.

Specifically, in Amber, a spellcaster can "hang" spells. Spells tend to be highly individualistic, and the more accomplished a spellcaster you are, the more intricate / effective your spells can be and the more of them you can have prepared at any given time.

When hanging the spell, the spellcaster creates all the mystical constructs which contain the spell's energy, and arranges them in such a way that one or two words and / or a gesture will cause the spell to complete.

What's different is that, in Amber, it's possible for a spellcaster to just throw raw energy around without going through the steps of hanging the spell. This, however, is much more physically and psychicly draining, and at one point one of the main characters (Merlin, I believe, son of Corwin), mentions something to the effect of "If you have to resort to throwing around energy, you've already lost."

The spells themselves are probably closer to Ars Magica than D&D, though, at least as far as the immortals are concerned. You decide what effects you want, and custom-construct a spell to do so, rather than having "fireball" in mind.

 

[kenobi65]

We might continue this thread by asking: should D&D 4e include another magic system?

Well, as others have pointed out, you could consider spontaneous spellcasting to be another magic system.

And, D&D already has another approach to magic: psionics. Psi is fundamentally a spellpoint system already.