D&D 5E What is a good 5e build for a 'Sniper'

[Fenris-77]

Yes, [MENTION=6966824]Esker[/MENTION] and I are walking the same road here.

I think 2 levels of fighter are essential, as are the four levels of rogue. The other 4 levels of fighter are cool and come with great toys, and I would certainly go that route, but they are less essential to the build IMO, provided you are going to pick up a second attack somewhere else (Ranger, or whatever).

The question of where to start is interesting but not actually super critical. I'd never advise someone to not start rogue if they wanted that extra skill or thought it was essential for their build. That might be a big deal for a campaign that was going to be third pillar intensive, for example, which would mitigate for all the social skills you can get your hands on.

The nice thing about the assassin is depending on what kind of character you're building you can go just about any direction. A old-school assassin- paid killer, disguises, leaves a folded paper crane on every victim - can be built by just staying rogue. But you can do a heap of other fun stuff. Personally, I like a little magic in my assassin builds, and there are a number of ways to make that happen, Gloomstalker being a personal fav, but Sorcerer, Warlock, and Bard all have their MC uses. Ranger sounds like it might fit the vaguely special ops military feel of the OP, but you can really let your imagination run wild.

 

[generic]

Yes, @Esker and I are walking the same road here.

I think 2 levels of fighter are essential, as are the four levels of rogue. The other 4 levels of fighter are cool and come with great toys, and I would certainly go that route, but they are less essential to the build IMO, provided you are going to pick up a second attack somewhere else (Ranger, or whatever).

The question of where to start is interesting but not actually super critical. I'd never advise someone to not start rogue if they wanted that extra skill or thought it was essential for their build. That might be a big deal for a campaign that was going to be third pillar intensive, for example, which would mitigate for all the social skills you can get your hands on.

The nice thing about the assassin is depending on what kind of character you're building you can go just about any direction. A old-school assassin- paid killer, disguises, leaves a folded paper crane on every victim - can be built by just staying rogue. But you can do a heap of other fun stuff. Personally, I like a little magic in my assassin builds, and there are a number of ways to make that happen, Gloomstalker being a personal fav, but Sorcerer, Warlock, and Bard all have their MC uses. Ranger sounds like it might fit the vaguely special ops military feel of the OP, but you can really let your imagination run wild.

After a bit of thought, I've decided that Gloom Stalker Ranger/Assassin Rogue/Way of Shadow Monk might work, but other options are not "off the table".

It is important for me to be able to cheese damage from one shot (one shot, one kill!) so Rogue, "crit-fishing", surprise, and getting advantage are all vital.

 

[Esker]

After a bit of thought, I've decided that Gloom Stalker Ranger/Assassin Rogue/Way of Shadow Monk might work, but other options are not "off the table".

It is important for me to be able to cheese damage from one shot (one shot, one kill!) so Rogue, "crit-fishing", surprise, and getting advantage are all vital.

What do you think about the suggestion to narrate multiple hits as a single hit? Just roll all your d20s first, then roll the damage in a big fistful of d8s and d6s. You could treat the number of hits as the number of vital organs you manage to skewer, rather than the number of arrows that stick. I really do think otherwise you're only going to be able to one shot insignificant enemies most of the time: your crit damage on that one attack is scaling about 1d6 per level, with a couple of other boosts here and there (maybe an extra 1 or so per level on average through level 12, between sharpshooter and 2x ASIs) which is enough to keep up with a wizard PC with 12 CON. But monsters scale by CR not by PC level, and the hit die scaling is in the ballpark of 2 to 1 when comparing CR to level. So even with a thoroughly special-purpose optimized character, your single hit damage is going to fall further and further behind monsters' HP pools as you level.

 

[Fenris-77]

Yup, D&D isn't built for PCs to be able to one shot equivalent level/CR stuff. If you're talking about mooks and mid-level minions it's more achievable. I think the narrative option is the best way to handle bigger targets.

 

[generic]

What do you think about the suggestion to narrate multiple hits as a single hit? Just roll all your d20s first, then roll the damage in a big fistful of d8s and d6s. You could treat the number of hits as the number of vital organs you manage to skewer, rather than the number of arrows that stick. I really do think otherwise you're only going to be able to one shot insignificant enemies most of the time: your crit damage on that one attack is scaling about 1d6 per level, with a couple of other boosts here and there (maybe an extra 1 or so per level on average through level 12, between sharpshooter and 2x ASIs) which is enough to keep up with a wizard PC with 12 CON. But monsters scale by CR not by PC level, and the hit die scaling is in the ballpark of 2 to 1 when comparing CR to level. So even with a thoroughly special-purpose optimized character, your single hit damage is going to fall further and further behind monsters' HP pools as you level.

I am aware, and I'm willing to have the DM (if I ever get a chance to play, rather than DM) narrate multiple attacks as one.

The one-shot-kill aspect was part of the challenge for me, not part of the optimization.

 

[FrogReaver]

After a bit of thought, I've decided that Gloom Stalker Ranger/Assassin Rogue/Way of Shadow Monk might work, but other options are not "off the table".

It is important for me to be able to cheese damage from one shot (one shot, one kill!) so Rogue, "crit-fishing", surprise, and getting advantage are all vital.

What does Gloom Stalker add to a sniper 1-shot-1-kill concept?

 

[FrogReaver]

Just curious, what CR creatures can a Level 1, Level 5, Level 11 rouge with surprise 1 shot?

 

[CapnZapp]

The idea Rogues are better than other classes in killing enemies faster simply isn't true in D&D in general and 5E in particular.

If what you want to achieve is a "skulker quickly and silently disposing of isolated foes" you should not just look at Rogues.

Not to mention how that likely isn't compatible with the idea of D&D as a group activity.

For example, the Assassin subclass might come across as perfect. In actual play, however, we discovered it simply doesn't happen nearly as often as it needs to justify choosing the subclass. The other players simply aren't content staying back and letting the Rogue solo the encounter. And why should they? The point of D&D is to have fun together.

The inescapable truth is that the Rogue is not well designed and balanced.

It's abilities are still grounded in the "sneaking off and do your own thing" mindset. That mindset is spot on for a NPC catburglar working alone, but every PC works in a party as a team. I expect and demand every ability to work with this in mind, and the Rogue falls short more often than most other classes.

The other uncomfortable truth is that the Rogue pays a terrible price for its ability to keep sneak attacking all day long, and it's out-of-combat utility. It also must jump through more hoops than maybe any class to optimize fully (ie gain two sneak attacks per combat round)

I would have liked the 5E Rogue class much more if its sneak attack damage were simply doubled (+d6 every level instead of every other level) and the restriction was "once per round" instead of "once per turn".

 

[CapnZapp]

Just curious, what CR creatures can a Level 1, Level 5, Level 11 rouge with surprise 1 shot?

Rogues can do CR 1, CR 2, and CR 3 maybe?

That is, it doesn't scale nearly with level. Another way of saying this is "forget about one-shot kills".

 

[generic]

What does Gloom Stalker add to a sniper 1-shot-1-kill concept?

Level three ability helps with sneaking and stealth.