What is a Reflex save

[Anubus]

Howdy,

I've long wondered exactly what a reflex save actually is. Is it ducking behind a conveniently placed rock, or actually dashing out of the area of effect? Does it depend on terrain? Do you make your player's actually move outside the area of effect?

Though I've never actually done it, I've begun toying with the idea of actually forcing creatures to move out of the area of effect if they make their Reflex save. The movement wouldn't count against the creatures movement for the round, and if their was no place they could go within their movement that would be "safe", they cannot use evasion, but a character could still drop prone, or cower behind a shield to get the regular save effect. Any comments on that? Cheers

 

[LordSloth]

Depending on what it is you can reflex save in spot (for example, if youve seen the first spiderman movie, the part in the burning house, he dodges projectiles by twisting and contorting about on the spot.)

Also your movement rule may get confusing when coupled with feats like dive for cover (complete adventurer), where another move would be implied (which would end with the character prone)

Not that im saying it wouldnt be something fun if you houserule it. Taking away evasion in certain situations is evil though, most of the characters that have evasion cant take a lot of punishment and thusly really need the ability.

 

[diaglo]

and they have rules concerning tight spaces and saves already... esp concerning trying to use feats like evasion.



basically, a reflex save means you avoided the hazard. you as the DM could just say the bolt of lightning arced around the PC or that the trap didn't open fully when the PC stepped on the square or... make something up...

use your imagination.

 

[Anubus]

I'm specifically thinking of spells like fireball, for example.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

In that case, consider that the fireball spell does not produce a "solid" sphere of fire. Rather, it creates a swirling mass of fire that mostly fills a given volume. Someone who makes his or her Reflex save is able to stay mostly in the non-fire parts of that volume - dodging like Spiderman did.

A rogue or other character with Evasion, on a successful save, has stayed entirely in the non-fire parts of that volume.

 

[DanMcS]

I'm specifically thinking of spells like fireball, for example.

If you make your reflex save vs a fireball, you had the presence of mind to close your eyes, turn your head, shield your face, and not inhale the superheated hot gas that would do horrible things to your throat and lungs. The fireball doesn't ignite anything, so most of the flash is felt on your clothes and exposed skin- you take some damage, but nothing like you would have if you had failed the save.

 

[werk]

See sig, it's game mechanics, it doesn't need to make sense.

SRD: These saves test your ability to dodge area attacks.

 

[Jdvn1]

Alternately, a Reflex save is knowing how to absorb an unexpected attack in order to take less or no damage. You can roll with a punch, right? Why can't you do the same with a big ball (of flame)?

 

[Crimson_Manticore]

Besides, what happens when a character is in a long narrow corridor and has a firestorm cast on him? Depending on the setup, he may have to move a very long distance to get out of the area. Even worse, what if the character is at the bottom of a very deep pit (10 foot in diameter) and a fireball is cast down on him from above? Does he just not get a save?

As others have said, I usually just think of it as shielding your face and other more exposed/vulnerable parts and try not to over-think it beyond that.

 

[Anubus]

You see that's exactly the kind of situation that bothers me. Someone in a 10' wide pit, cannot dodge a 20 ft' fireball, it just doesn't make sense. Now I also agree that making sense is certainly not a requirement, but without some kind of physical movement to avoid being hit, this would make more sense as a fortitude save, IMHO.