What is an enemy?

[Akaiku]

Quick quesiton! What exactly are the requirements for a target to be considerd an enemy?

Could a cleric go around Astral Sealing random objects? Or does it have to be something threatening, in which case can the same cleric go around astral sealing traps?

Could a shielding swordmage mark a trap?

What could a foe that gets bonuses when attacking or surrounded by two or more enemies count as such? Would the Wizard's flaming sphere count as an enemy? Or each block of a wall of fire? Or a shamen's spirit companion?

Speaking of which, if a spirit companion can be an enemy for provoking attacks of oppertunity, can't a fighter attack a tangable zone, hit it, and stop it from moving?

What about powers that trigger when an enemy approaches on bad guys ?(do they say enemy? I'm not a dm so I don't really check npc abilities)

 

[fba827]

Enemy is a subset of "creature" so objects do not qualify as enemies.

Also, the DMG tells the DM that an enemy should pose some sort of threat - so DM judgment is involved there. So you can't just run around striking at easy targets (like a bag of rats) for the sake of kicking in some bonus effect on a power.

Beyond that, I would say an enemy is whomever the particular PC views as being against him.

Normally, Conjurations can not be attacked, but a shaman's spirit companion (which is a conjuration) has a specific rule that lets it be attacked like a creature, so it could count as an enemy for the opposing side.

Standard disclaimer: this is all just my opinion since i don't have rulebook reference pages handy. so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Turtlejay]

I'm sure if you look back a couple pages in the forum you'll find the last such discussion on this subject, which was pretty heated if I remember correctly.

I think the DM is the final arbiter of what is an enemy, and the 'bag o' rats' guideline should apply. If you *are* the DM, just try to keep abuses from cheapening the game. If the Cleric Astral Seals his boot after a conbat and everyone takes turns kicking it to get free healing, then you have just invalidated a lot of the previous encounter. If the Shielding Swordmage marks the trap and absorbs all the damage, you have just made the trap worthless.

Not that you should ignore creative solutions, but you shouldn't allow them to become the Standard Operating Procedure.

Jay

 

[DracoSuave]

Objects can qualify as creatures in specific cases where the DM permits it to occur, and ONLY when the DM permits it to occur.

If you want to be able to Astral Seal rocks, Shielding Aegis traps, or other such things, then you must make sure the DM will allow it.

And do not expect to -always- be able to hit objects, even with the same power. A block of ice you want to Scorching Burst? Yes. The magma jets? Won't work so well.

That's the rule. Nothing more, nothing less.

In the case of Astral Seal, forget it. Most DMs will have read Bag'o'Rats and this is a prime example of that in action.

In the case of Aegis of Shielding a trap? That's actually kinda clever. The DM might allow that for certain kinds of traps. Not all, mind you.


Also specifically regarding enemies:

Allies are any creature who is a willing recipient for the user's powers. Enemies are anyone (regardless of hostility, even neutrality) who is not an ally or the character.

This is from the PHB. Hostility is not an issue: A completely neutral townsfolk is considered an 'enemy' for the purpose of targetting powers. (Yes, this is specifically addressed in the rules)

 

[mneme]

Also specifically regarding enemies:

Allies are any creature who is a willing recipient for the user's powers. Enemies are anyone (regardless of hostility, even neutrality) who is not an ally or the character.

This is from the PHB. Hostility is not an issue: A completely neutral townsfolk is considered an 'enemy' for the purpose of targetting powers. (Yes, this is specifically addressed in the rules)

Indeed. This does open up the question of whether you can consider all your allies "enemies" for an attack when, for instance, you get the ability to teleport every enemy in a close burst 2. (my answer: probably, technically, but it's not something I'm willing to push a GM on).

 

[DracoSuave]

Indeed. This does open up the question of whether you can consider all your allies "enemies" for an attack when, for instance, you get the ability to teleport every enemy in a close burst 2. (my answer: probably, technically, but it's not something I'm willing to push a GM on).

Ironicly, if they want you to do this, then as willing recipients for your power, they cease to be enemies.

Technically speaking tho, most of the time you can say who is your ally, and everyone else is an enemy for the purpose of powers.

 

[Akaiku]

Enemy is a subset of "creature" so objects do not qualify as enemies.

Standard disclaimer: this is all just my opinion since i don't have rulebook reference pages handy. so take it for what it's worth.

Is it at all possible to find the refrence to that top concept for me?

 

[fba827]

Is it at all possible to find the refrence to that top concept for me?

PHB1 p57 - Section titled "Target" about 3-4 sentences in... It says

"Enemy or enemies means a creature or creatures that aren't your allies ..."

From a (quick) mental recounting, you have ...

* Creatures (with subgroups of enemy, ally, and you)
* Objects would fall in a separate category.
* Conjurations and Zones seem to fall in their own category as well (when it comes to targeting).

Those are the main ones that i've seen mentioned in target lines (not counting qualifiers like "in burst" or "adjacent to X" etc)

I'm sure there might be others that i'm just not thinking of at the moment.

Of course, all this with the usual caveat/disclaimer: your DM (or you, if you're the DM) can decide if a particular object is targetable as a creature for some reason specific to that object, etc.

 

[DracoSuave]

Indeed. This does open up the question of whether you can consider all your allies "enemies" for an attack when, for instance, you get the ability to teleport every enemy in a close burst 2. (my answer: probably, technically, but it's not something I'm willing to push a GM on).

Well, generally such an attack involves an attack roll to hit those enemies in that burst, which means to teleport your allies, you need to attack them.

In such a case, the teleport is not automatic, and even if it is 'Miss: Teleport blah' then you still must risk damaging those allies in order to do so; you don't get to 'call a miss' on them.

But, 'all enemies' rather than 'all creatures' in such a case would indicate that you do not have to attack (and potentially damage) your allies in that case.


And also note, for many leader powers that do this, there's a seperate 'teleport your allies' clause.


Lastly, be careful when there's neutral parties in 'all enemy' blasts. They aren't your allies. They get hurt.

 

[Squizzle]

A miserable pile of XPs.