What is and isn't Space Opera?

[Umbran]

See, I hear Pirates of the Caribbean and Lord of the Rings and think instantly of space opera; just add space.

Pirates of the Caribbean, yes - if you change sailing ships to space ships, you'd probably have space opera.

Lord of the Rings, maybe not. The epic scale fits, but the pacing and understated action and characters probably keep it from hitting enough other tropes.

 

[Ryujin]

Does it get bonus points for literally having it too?

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[payn]

Lord of the Rings, maybe not. The epic scale fits, but the pacing and understated action and characters probably keep it from hitting enough other tropes.

IDK, many characters rise to occasion and achieve larger than life moments in a race to save all the goodness in the world. Seems the right batch of items to fit thematically to me. I think folks tend to have an overinflated opinion of how good LORT is, while also having an allergic reaction to anything they like being called soap.

 

[Cadence]

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Skimmed five or six pages and failed to check the most important one!

 

[Umbran]

The whole point is the term is usually used by people who wouldn't read a Sci Fi trilogy if you threatened them with thumbscrews.

I don't think folks who don't read sci fi trilogies on threat of torture are apt to use any specific terms to qualify one type of sci-fi as different from another.

 

[Yora]

Sci-fi has been looked down upon during most of it's existence as a defined genre, even though it's more and more accepted at academies etc. And that's ok for me. I think that people who don't read sci-fi out of snobbery are lacking imagination and curiousity, and they think that I'm a tasteless geek. That's ok too. It's even more ok that my library includes a good part of the literary canon and Nobel prize winners, so I can smack them on the head if they deserve it ;-)

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The "current news agenda" sounds a lot like politics, to me.

But, really, this seems to ignore scale. The "current news agenda" is a thing for the mass market. There's not a mass market movement of thousands and tens of thousands of people discussing sci-fi literature prior to the 1960s on the internet. So, no, I do not have the hubris to feel my voice on the topic matters one single whit.

I'm not talking about "sci fi" literature, I'm talking about literature in general, and as someone who works in education, and whose partner is a literature specialist, yes, it is political, and every voice does count.

Yes, we are campaigning to keep literature, and especially pre-1960s* literature, on the national curriculum, because the first thing the people who want to stop independent thinking do is burn all the books.


*1960s is the cut off point for "modern" in NC jargon.

 

[Umbran]

IDK, many characters rise to occasion and achieve larger than life moments in a race to save all the goodness in the world.

I already said I felt the scale was appropriate. I think the characters and action are understated, and the pacing far too slow for space opera. LotRs aims for gravitas, rather than pulpiness, which makes it a poor fit for Space Opera.

 

[Umbran]

I think that people who don't read sci-fi out of snobbery are lacking imagination and curiousity...

Folks, let us not turn this discussion to insulting people, even if they are not present.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Lord of the Rings, maybe not. The epic scale fits, but the pacing and understated action and characters probably keep it from hitting enough other tropes.

JMS was open about Babylon 5 being inspired by Lord of the Rings, and I don't think many would say Babylon 5 was not space opera.

The simple transition of medium from book to TV or movie deals with pacing and understated action. I don't think you can accuse the Jackson LotR movies as having understated action.