What is HackMaster???

[ColonelHardisson]

and rules which reinforce roleplaying

Yeah, but rounser, come on - I don't think anyone who prefers to play older edition would say there are any rules which help reinforce roleplaying - there weren't any. Everything else I agree with.

 

[rounser]

Yeah, but rounser, come on - I don't think anyone who prefers to play older edition would say there are any rules which help reinforce roleplaying - there weren't any. Everything else I agree with.

My fault, I meant HM's new systems when I wrote that - depending on how you look at it, it either improves or detracts from AD&D with those new rules.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Yeah, my fault, I meant HM's new systems when I wrote that - depending on how you look at it, it either improves or detracts from AD&D with those new rules.

OK, that makes more sense then.

The mechanics you refer to can make character generation more fun than usual for a RPG, but they also make characters a lot less expendable than would seem to be indicated by the general tone of the books. That is, a lot is made about how quickly characters die, but that would necessitate another long session of character generation, which can get tedious if the body count is as high as often as it should be, according to the popular notion of what HackMaster is "supposed" to be like.

 

[rounser]

That is, a lot is made about how quickly characters die, but that would necessitate another long session of character generation, which can get tedious if the body count is as high as often as it should be, according to the popular notion of what HackMaster is "supposed" to be like.

What you said.

 

[JPL]

Because, as we all know, realism and slick universal resolution mechanics are by far the most important part of D&D, not cool concepts, cool spells, cool monsters and rules which reinforce roleplaying and a sense of fun in the game as opposed to reminding players of computer games.

Yes, it was the rules which made D&D popular, not the genre, the feel, the spirit of the game, no sirree...

Ah, "coolness" and "feel" and "spirit."

Personally, I think open multiclassing and no level restrictions and prestige classes are cool. I think monsters with character classes are cool.

I think that good art is cool, too.

Most of all, I think a universal mechanic that you can explain in thirty seconds and that is made available free of charge to any person who wants to use it so that there are now one hundred companies producing D&D products is cool.

 

[rounser]

Ah, "coolness" and "feel" and "spirit."

Yes. It seems you fall into the camp of those who believe that because something is hard to quantify, it doesn't exist. People are happily able to judge fiction and films on those factors, and they don't have any rules.

Compare, for instance, Sunless Citadel to the Little Keep on the Borderlands and you'll see a world of difference in those three things. Compare the spells, monsters and magic items of HM to those of 3E and you'll notice a lot of difference in terms of coolness, feel and spirit. Compare the attitude of the delivery in which the rules and published modules are written and the philosophies behind them - and the artwork - and you'll see another.

Personally, I think open multiclassing and no level restrictions and prestige classes are cool. I think monsters with character classes are cool.

I do too. That's one of the things which I think 3E does a better job of.

I think that good art is cool, too.

Me too.

Most of all, I think a universal mechanic that you can explain in thirty seconds and that is made available free of charge to any person who wants to use it so that there are now one hundred companies producing D&D products is cool.

Yup. That's another good thing about 3E.

 

[dcollins]

Old gamer here. Left at the start of 2E. Came back for 3E. Yep, I feel alientated.

Exact same situation here. Loved original EGG brand AD&D. Perceived 2nd Ed. as 85% a xerox of 1st Ed., with 15% almost thoroughly awful design-change tinkerings messing it up. Was very impressed by the 3rd Ed. core rules as being carefully considered, cared for, and actually playtested -- it definitely passed the "someoner gave a crap about this" test.

I'd gladly play either 1st Ed. AD&D or 3rd Ed. D&D. It's 2nd Ed. which I consider real schlock (both in the core rules and the supplements). I looked at Hackmaster, but won't be buying any of it because I can't personally swallow the parody.

 

[The Traveler]

A little irritating that the Kenzer guy thinks playing 3e players are idiots (which is the only thing I can conclude, reading his insulting post).

Kinda like the Dragon cartoon, Zogonia, from #299 (p12 for those who care to look it up).

I get that he likes Hackmaster, but that shouldn't give him license to bash.

Er, you know that Kenzer makes Kalamar, the only official third party Dungeons and Dragons setting, right?

 

[Emiricol]

Yes, I know that. Which makes his comments all the more surprising. I know which setting not to waste my money on now, though, since the company doesn't believe in the product.

 

[Q1000]

Cost

One thing to Hackmasters credit is that it is the most expensive RPG to buy.

Say what you wish about D20, the buy in price was $60.00 for three books, and If you wish you can stop there, you are done!!!

Hackmaster has a buy in price of over $200.00. The reason is that the monster manual is broken down in multiple sections. Thats right, to get all the monsters you need to buy about 8-10 of these books as the manuals are printed in alphabetical order, plus the GH and DMG.

these numbers are based on what the GM would have to spend to get a complete system.

Food for thought.