What is Powerful Build worth?

[sirwmholder]

Half-Giants have the Powerful Build ability which treats them as being one size larger whenever it would be a benefit to them... in designing a new monster or PC race what value would you place on the Powerful Build ability?

In advancing a Monster by size could you substitue the Powerful Build ability without actually changing the size of the creature without too much trouble?

Thanks in advance,
William Holder

 

[Celebrim]

If all it did was give you the advantages of larger size and no drawback, but didn't give you reach, it would be about equivalent to any of the PC races starting packages by itself. Being big has alot of advantages (increased carry weight, grapple bonus, stability bonus, increased unarmed attack damage, often increased movement rate, reduced vulnerability to certain special attacks (like swallow whole), improved feat access, etc.) and with no drawbacks that's a really good deal.

If it does give reach as well, probably the most powerful advantage of being big, its about equivalent to advancing the monsters size category without adjusting the monsters stats (normally, Con +4, Str +4, Dex -2) because the creature gets to keep his favorable modifiers to AC and attack bonus due to size and otherwise gets larger size without the penalties.

 

[sirwmholder]

Thanks for the quick response...

Powerful Build (Ex)
The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

The racial modifiers for a Half-Giant are +2 Strength, +2 Constitution and -2 Dexterity. I was curious if this was special to the Half-Giant or a reflection on being borderline Large creature. Since the half-giant would receive full benefit from increased size I believe those racial modifiers are unique to the half-giant not a side effect of Powerful Build.

Thanks for your time,
William Holder

 

[borble]

what book is it in?
thanks
ben

 

[sirwmholder]

what book is it in?
thanks
ben

Sorry about that... Half-Giants are Psionic and are in the 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook. I'm left wondering if Dwarves are really small creatures with the Powerful Build ability.

Thanks for your time,
William Holder

 

[Marius Delphus]

I've been thinking about that one as well. What would be the effect of making dwarves Small sized but with Powerful Build?

 

[StGabe]

The most immediate effect would be that they'd get +1 to attack roles and +1 AC which is certainly undesired. I think Dwarves definitely have to be medium.

 

[Arkhandus]

I dunno if Powerful Build grants reach or access to bigger weapons, but....

If not, then approximately 3 feats in value; possibly 4 but that's likely stretching it. Sorta similar to Imp. Grapple, Imp. Trip, and Imp. Bull Rush together, and covering the other stuff too (increased carrying capacity and whatnot).

If it grants access to larger weapons as well, then definitely 4 or 5 feats in value, from the extra +1 or +2 to average damage that it would yield, and the greater minimum and/or maximum damage it would allow. I'd probably say 5 feats, or 4-1/2.

If reach were also thrown in, then that'd bump it up another 1-3 feats in value. Probably worth 2 feats, so a total of 6-1/2 or 7 feats.

Of course, you also have to consider how well Powerful Build meshes with the other qualities of a race. If the race is meek and has nothing else of use in combat, then PB isn't quite as significant since the race won't likely be getting maximum benefit out of it. But a strong race, for example, would have better synergy with it and get the most out of PB, warranting the full value of PB being considered in determining the race's LA/ECL.

Normally, a larger creature would suffer AC/attack/Hide penalties that would balance out 3-5 feats worth of the size benefits (depending on just how big the critter was), but Powerful Build ignores the usual balancing factor for no reason at all (it really doesn't make any sense to me why a critter would be considered one size larger for all beneficial purposes but without any of the drawbacks).

*sticks his tongue out at Goliaths in annoyed derision*

 

[Arkhandus]

borble: Half-Giants are in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, while Goliaths are in Races of Stone. Both books are from Wizards of the Coast.

Here's a link to the half-giant, at an SRD site. Their stats are open game content.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants

Half-giants basically get their +1 Level Adjustment from their Constitution bonus, Powerful Build, and their Stomp psionic power. I dunno if Goliaths have an LA or not, or if they're more powerful, as I don't have RoS.

 

[borble]

you all insierd me to make this race. what do you think?[sblock]
The Shimps

Known to be vary strong and agile, these mini giants are often picked for guard work regardless if their small size.

Physical description

Small, agile, ruthless, fast and strong pretty much sum them up well.

Alignment

They tend to be chaotic neutral because of there love of self power and there ability to get in the way.

Land

they live in the dregs if human civilization mostly, making it easier for them to live and prosper, as they have no skills of farming, only there talent for war.

Adventuring

They are untrustworthy unless you know that you’re vital to there live.

Favored class

they tend to mostly be barbarians, but there skill lies in fighting.
Fighter

Stats

Ability's: +2 str +2 dex -2 int -2 wis -2 cha

Size: tiny

Languages: common

speed: 30 ft.

special Medium, size

Medium: Shrimp's are able to carry as much poundage, and use medium weapons as a human, and all their size related modifiers are considers medium. All positive things about being tiny still aply.
EXAPLE: Their unarmed is 1d4.

Size: because of there size they get +2 ac, +8 Hide and move silently. this bonus is reduced to 1 and 4 if they are welding a medium weapon, or carrying a medium size lode(for a human). although they still have the -8 to grapple checks.

LA:0
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