Well, isn't some of it just trying to keep things relatively simple? No need to inflict Moon Druid Wild Shape on the uninitiated. That one ability alone has more bookkeeping of the entire Champion class!
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D&D 5E What is the best "5th" class?
- Thread starter Mort
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Well, isn't some of it just trying to keep things relatively simple? No need to inflict Moon Druid Wild Shape on the uninitiated. That one ability alone has more bookkeeping of the entire Champion class!
clutchbone
First Post
In my mind, a "basic" party has a Strong one, a Dexterous one, a Smart one, and a Wise one, so the fifth spot always goes to a Charismatic one.
Obviously many classes can cover two roles (rangers are both Dextrous & Wise), but that's my default mental image of a D&D party.
Obviously many classes can cover two roles (rangers are both Dextrous & Wise), but that's my default mental image of a D&D party.
Rogue and Fighter are the best. They get extra lower-level ASIs. They also have the Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight subclasses, which are above-and beyond the best subclasses in the game.
Fighter has the best Level 1-2 class features, before they even get subclass features. The only class feature that is as good as any of the Level 1-2 Fighter class features is the Divine Smite class feature of Paladins, but Action Surge is its equal. Rogue has good Level 1-2 class features -- but not-quite as good as Fighter. Rogue's 3d6 Sneak Attack damage combined with Uncanny Dodge at Level 5 is great, but I don't think much beats the Evasion class feature at Level 7. I, personally, would rather have Evasion than any 3rd or 4th level spell combination.
After Levels 8 and 10, the Fighter and Rogue start to fade in efficiency, especially without more-oomph like the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster subclasses. Just as a small example, the Monk Way of the Long Death gets the Mastery of Death subclass feature at Level 11. Fighter and Rogue can't really touch that level of class-craft mastery.
The Sorcerer is my favorite higher-level class, especially with a heavy focus on teleportation spells. There are a lot of multiclass combinations that are exciting and fun. Almost anything with Arcana Cleric feels broken at times. Going Gloom Stalker to 4 and then Arcane Archer for the rest can be exciting. Probably the best is Cleric with Tempest Domain multiclassed to Wizard with the School of Evocation subclass. It has a natural D&D feel without going too off-the rails -- and it's both fun and ultra-powerful. Sometimes I feel that the Charisma-prioritized (SAD) classes should never be multiclassed together. Not sure why Bard/Paladin/Sorcerer/Warlock is ever ok. Thanks, 5E, but no thanks.
Let's face it, though -- defense-wise Monk comes off well (with Fighter and Rogue not too-far behind depending on the challenges) and offense-wise it's a tossup between Barbarian, Fighter, and Paladin. For mystery and excitement, one can always play a Wild-Magic Sorcerer. Yes, a well-placed Sleep or Color Spray early-on (and sometimes even mid-level) can be devastating, but the Wild-Magic Surge table is definitely the most-fantastic high-fantasy element in the 5E system. Don't prioritize Wild Magic every campaign, but I think a party needs this sort of randomness for 2 or more out of the 10 or so main 5E modules.
I don't like the dice-control elements in 5E. It's one thing to choose School of Divination Wizard subclass, but it's another to layer Lucky / etc on-top of that. Too-much. Advantage and disadvantage are good, which is why Enhance Ability is one of the best spells in the game and why I keep giving Mastermind a second and third look -- but Elven Accuracy and similar make me cringe a little here-and there. Again, it's too-much for me and what I like in gaming.
Fighter has the best Level 1-2 class features, before they even get subclass features. The only class feature that is as good as any of the Level 1-2 Fighter class features is the Divine Smite class feature of Paladins, but Action Surge is its equal. Rogue has good Level 1-2 class features -- but not-quite as good as Fighter. Rogue's 3d6 Sneak Attack damage combined with Uncanny Dodge at Level 5 is great, but I don't think much beats the Evasion class feature at Level 7. I, personally, would rather have Evasion than any 3rd or 4th level spell combination.
After Levels 8 and 10, the Fighter and Rogue start to fade in efficiency, especially without more-oomph like the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster subclasses. Just as a small example, the Monk Way of the Long Death gets the Mastery of Death subclass feature at Level 11. Fighter and Rogue can't really touch that level of class-craft mastery.
The Sorcerer is my favorite higher-level class, especially with a heavy focus on teleportation spells. There are a lot of multiclass combinations that are exciting and fun. Almost anything with Arcana Cleric feels broken at times. Going Gloom Stalker to 4 and then Arcane Archer for the rest can be exciting. Probably the best is Cleric with Tempest Domain multiclassed to Wizard with the School of Evocation subclass. It has a natural D&D feel without going too off-the rails -- and it's both fun and ultra-powerful. Sometimes I feel that the Charisma-prioritized (SAD) classes should never be multiclassed together. Not sure why Bard/Paladin/Sorcerer/Warlock is ever ok. Thanks, 5E, but no thanks.
Let's face it, though -- defense-wise Monk comes off well (with Fighter and Rogue not too-far behind depending on the challenges) and offense-wise it's a tossup between Barbarian, Fighter, and Paladin. For mystery and excitement, one can always play a Wild-Magic Sorcerer. Yes, a well-placed Sleep or Color Spray early-on (and sometimes even mid-level) can be devastating, but the Wild-Magic Surge table is definitely the most-fantastic high-fantasy element in the 5E system. Don't prioritize Wild Magic every campaign, but I think a party needs this sort of randomness for 2 or more out of the 10 or so main 5E modules.
I don't like the dice-control elements in 5E. It's one thing to choose School of Divination Wizard subclass, but it's another to layer Lucky / etc on-top of that. Too-much. Advantage and disadvantage are good, which is why Enhance Ability is one of the best spells in the game and why I keep giving Mastermind a second and third look -- but Elven Accuracy and similar make me cringe a little here-and there. Again, it's too-much for me and what I like in gaming.
It's funny. The "smart one" is the most replaceable one to me. I'd much much rather have a charismatic one.
clutchbone
First Post
Oh, I'd much rather play a charismatic one, for sure.
It's more like I see the fighter, rogue, wizard, and cleric quickly and quietly getting geared up for an adventure, and then suddenly the bard pops out all like "Hey guys, I just composed this amazing ode to....wait, are we going on an adventure? No one told me we were going on an adventure! Awesome! When do we leave? This is going to be so much fun!"
It's more like I see the fighter, rogue, wizard, and cleric quickly and quietly getting geared up for an adventure, and then suddenly the bard pops out all like "Hey guys, I just composed this amazing ode to....wait, are we going on an adventure? No one told me we were going on an adventure! Awesome! When do we leave? This is going to be so much fun!"
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