What is the EL of this encounter?

[Sporelock]

Outside
Undead are coming from all directions
Spells (actually, spell points in this campaign) have been expended to cast Entangle spells to slow down pursuit
Magic costs 3x normal outside, so instead of costing 1 spell point, a first level spell costs 3

Inside
• Two 2nd level clerics both with the undead template
• One 5th level cleric with the undead template
• No magic works inside the temple, except for the cleric’s magic
• The game setting allows no Turn Undead until 4th level and the team was 3rd level
• The team took a good deal of damage getting through the undead outside

1. What is the EL of this encounter?
2. Does the removal of spells cast by the team increase the EL of the encounter?
3. Does the team already being damaged in the previous encounter affect the EL? I ask because of this notation about CR “A creature's CR indicates the average level that a party of four fresh characters would find moderately difficult to defeat”
4. Does the lack of retreat as an option increase the EL?


Not that if has any effect on the EL, but the team that dealt with this encounter was 3rd level

 

[Stormborn]

When i first read your post I thought the undead clerics were the party and was wondering what you were asking.
However:
1) Figure the CRs for each of the Undead Clerics and consult the table in the DMG regarding mixed encounters.
2) Depending on the party I would increase the over all EL by 1 or 2 due to enviroment. If the party is spell caster heavy then its a +2 or maybe a +3, if they are a melee combat heavy group then only +1.
3) The freshness of the party shouldn't really effect the EL unless there have been significantly more than 4 or 5 EL appropriate encounters. Even then maybe not. (see 2 above)
4) While you are correct in thinking that the CR of undead assumes the availability of turning, my experiance shows me that even in games with no turning and no magic the average mindless undead doesn't rate a change in CR. They just take longer to deal with. 5) EL is an imperfect system based on an imperfect system (CR). Sometimes you just have to guess.

Did the party know what was going to happen before they went in? Did they prepare for it or was it a suprise? That might determine the EL for awarding xp as well, but not signifcantly. If anything a well prepared group will lower the CR of a challange more than a unprepared group would raise it.

I will add that this situation seems more like a planned TPK than simply a high level threat. Sometiems you push the limits of the PCsand they win and sometimes they lose and sometimes its a little of both, but personally I hate to run or play in games where the adventure stacked against the PCs.

 

[Sporelock]

The team was trying to deliver an important package and were actually trying to keep a low profile. On the way to be smuggled into a nearby city, they happened upon the abandonned village so had no clue what would happen next. I found that the way it was set up, the team would start fighting the first group of undead thinking they could handle it and that gave time for the other undead to stat surrounding the team and herd them into the temple. The head priest used the undead to do just that.

I was thinking of turning having an effect more on the inside of the temple since there were 3 undead creatures in there. Outside it would not have done much since there were hundreds.

The adventure is from some Midnight source book and the EL for the encounter was listed as EL 5 and I was shocked. A 5th level regular cleric is already making it EL 5.

The team did not last too long really. The spellcaster got lucky with a couple of crossbow shots, but the rogue did very little with his lack of sneak attack and 8 str (he could hit, but did very little damage) and the toughest fighter got whacked with Death Touch and died instantly. An unpleasant TPK that was from a side encounter.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

You're using spell points and an "undead template." A lot more information is needed about what you're playing before anyone can make an accurate read on it, IMO.

 

[Sammael]

Assuming a standard 4-member party (fighter/rogue/cleric/wizard), I'd say EL8. Judging by your outcome (TPK for a 3rd level party), that sounds about right.

Spells not working means that the cleric and wizard are effectively no better than a warrior and a commoner. Turning not working reduces the cleric's power level even more. Since the oponents were undead, the rogue is useless. This leaves the 3rd level fighter, who certainly can't deal with a 5th level undead cleric alone. Pretty much a guaranteed TPK.