What is wrong with 4E?

[VannATLC]

Unless I misunderstand, you're just saying that the DM and players can fill in fluff. While true, that takes a lot of work - honestly, I'm not sure it's any less work than tweaking iffy mechanics. For those who don't *have* a lot of time to write/rewrite functional fluff, this can be a problem.

.. The rules are rules.

If you want pre-packaged fluff, buy a campaign setting.

 

[GnomeWorks]

And if you like experimenting, you'll find a lot of interesting combinations and possibilities - just imagine what stuff you can snag with the multiclass feats.

...what, a load of suck?

Because that's pretty much what I concluded, after several hours of banging my head against 4e multiclassing.

 

[hcm]

And worst of all, the hardback covers warped within an hour of being removed from the plastic shrink wrap. My PHB doesn't even close neatly anymore -- instead the right-most edge of the front cover floats half an inch open.

This has to do with humidity changes and temperature. It can happen no matter what the quality of the book. To prevent this, you should -- at the first signs of the cover warping -- put it against a plain surface with a heavy pile of similar size books on top of it. Keep it that way for 48 hours until all the humidity has left the covers. This will save the book. But I'm afraid it might be too late for yours now.

 

[theNater]

Unless I misunderstand, you're just saying that the DM and players can fill in fluff. While true, that takes a lot of work - honestly, I'm not sure it's any less work than tweaking iffy mechanics. For those who don't *have* a lot of time to write/rewrite functional fluff, this can be a problem.

Filling in fluff takes time. Tweaking iffy mechanics takes time.

I, for one, would rather spend my time filling in fluff than tweaking mechanics. I'm happier when my daydreams take the form of "and I can change my big attack so it looks like I'm leaping off a table and bringing my sword down as I fall" than when they are "and if we decrease the range by about 30 yards, the spell is working about how it should be."

Don't get me wrong, I like playing with numbers. But at the game table I'd rather have to wing what a critter looks like than what damage it does.

 

[unan oranis]

This has to do with humidity changes and temperature. It can happen no matter what the quality of the book. To prevent this, you should -- at the first signs of the cover warping -- put it against a plain surface with a heavy pile of similar size books on top of it. Keep it that way for 48 hours until all the humidity has left the covers. This will save the book. But I'm afraid it might be too late for yours now.

Interesting. My dmg and mm didn't get the wavy pages/slightly not closing problem, maybe because for some reason i did put them under a stack of other books and such after peruesing them.

My phb did though, not a big deal just kind of odd. Considering my group has a ritual "biting of the book" and other defacing initiation rituals for phb's, being a bit fatter is the least of its problems.

Is it like a "hot off the presses" thing? I got mine about a week ago so they couldn't have been that old.

 

[WhatGravitas]

...what, a load of suck?

Because that's pretty much what I concluded, after several hours of banging my head against 4e multiclassing.

Actually, a wizard can pick up some cleric powers to broaden his power scope and enter the Divine Oracle paragon path. This gives you serious versatility, allowing you do do a wizard with buffing, a bit more akin to 3E wizards.

And as multiclassing feats, yeah, they suck. But if you see them as cherry-picking feats, well then they're a bit better.

Cheers, LT.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Actually, a wizard can pick up some cleric powers to broaden his power scope and enter the Divine Oracle paragon path. This gives you serious versatility, allowing you do do a wizard with buffing, a bit more akin to 3E wizards.

I am unimpressed.

Though their action point feature is rather nifty.

And as multiclassing feats, yeah, they suck. But if you see them as cherry-picking feats, well then they're a bit better.

So calling them multiclassing feats is a bit like false advertising.

 

[hcm]

Is it like a "hot off the presses" thing? I got mine about a week ago so they couldn't have been that old.

Partly, yes, but also due to the fact a book has often gone through a lot of "climate changes" from the presses, through shipping, temorary storages, waiting in a box outside the store, the store shelves, you taking it home and reading it on the balcony then in your home sauna etc. It needs to rest and "acclimatize". Unless something keeps the covers straight, they *might* bend.

 

[VannATLC]

Gnomeworks.. its not 3e. Sorry.

It is, however, still multi-classing.

Nor, for that matter, do they suck in any mechanical or technical sense. We've already seen plenty of builds that use them to excellent effect.
You lose a small amount of your standard functionality to pick up versatility elsewhere.

You don't get the same result that you do from 3e. So? 3e was *broken*.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Its a bit funny that you (the thread starter) only mentions what is left out, while skipping what is added (Dragonborn, Eladrin, Tiefling, Warlock)? Each class takes a lot more space now than before - except the full casters that take less space.

Spells - eh I mean powers - are much shorter in description than earlier and more to the point. You have a bit fewer of them, which makes it possible to actually have character sheets with all your spells on them, instead of rifling through the PHB and 132 splat books for the definition of spell x. I mean power x.

I agree that there are actually too few choices you have when selecting powers. For instance the cleric has powers that are either wisdom or strength based. As it is very hard to increase your attack rating, you really need a high primary stat. Having two primary stats isn't really viable. Because of this you will have a cleric with either wisdom or strength as his primary stat. That really cuts off half the powers available to a cleric character. This goes for quite a lot of the other classes as well. (The only classes I have seen that doesn't really suffer from this is the Fighter, Rogue and Wizard. They have secondary stats they are dependant on, but they don't need to be very high.)

I have run three test-sessions and I think the game ran very well. You have the right amount of abilities right at level 1 and before you get too tired of them, you get new powers/feats as you level. Its a bit like everybody playing a cleric power-wise. Which is good, I liked the 3.5 cleric. You could always pull out all the stops and go all-out offensive. Now every character can do that, unleashing all their daily powers if they feel its necessary.