Well, now that we've demonstrated the overwhellming guy think that EN world is based on...
Moving this part up...
>>>What's so infuriating about all this is that so much could be nipped at the bud by applying a little bit of forethought and a little bit of awareness that people are different but still deserving of the same respect<<<
And the guys whom you game with haven't figured out how to communicate with women and understand the way the female brain works. They need to read the book too.
Seriously - this is all communication stuff - it's all about the differences in the way males and females communicate and act. Once you understand it, you can begin to adjust your behavior accordingly, and so can they - if they're willing.
The only problem with this theory is that there an assumption (underlying most of your responses, IMHO) that in the social sphere its the women who have to adjust their behaviour to be one of the guys. Men only need to read the book to "handle" that special woman or two in their lives, but women need to learn how to act the right way to get into society.
The problem isn't that men and women behave or react differently. The problem (demonstrated very well on this thread) is when either men or women (usually men due to their dominance of our culture) decide that their way is somehow intrinsicly RIGHT and the other side should just get used to it, toughen up, learn to be the same, etc etc.
robaustin said:
Afrodyte - have you read "Men Are From Mars, Women are from Venus"? If not - it's worth a read - a lot of what you are detailing comes from the base differences in the two sexes and the way they communicate. Granted, not all of it is explained that way - but a lot of it is. Let me take this point by point:
>>>1. Why is it that male gamers are often so condescending? If I ask a question, why does it seem like they think I am completely ignorant? Whether they know the answer or don't even understand the question, why is it that I often get the answer I'd say was reserved for (to put it politely) the lowest common denominator? <<<
Because gaming is - like many other aspects of our society - male dominated and is very much like a "boys' club" - there isn't much you can do about this except earn their respect through playing with them and showing them you can run and keep up with them.
In a word, **CENSORED**. The fact that guys may be used to playing with guys does not in any way mean that women have to become guys to play. It doesn't mean that guy think dynamic is good for the game or essential to the way it is played. What you can do about it is be youself as a gamer and make it clear that the things that make a "gamer" are not the things that make a "guy".
>>>2. Why is it that when I'm cranky or touchy, I'm suddenly thrust into the position of being a representative of all female gamers instead of just having that kind of day?<<<
Because guys do not communicate emotion very often - so your emotions are often seen by them as over the top IN THEIR MIND. To show emotions for males is to show weakness.
true, once you accept the guy definitions of emotions - that is that anger is not "emotional". If my printer jams up when I'm on a deadline and I shed a tear thats "emotional" to a guy. When his printer jms up and he lets loose a string of obscinities and swears he's gonna throw it out the window, that generally isn't. (note, this comes from a long multimember conversation on USENET years ago (which I only observed) in which the males on the group would contort themselves amazingly to show that anger was "better" than sadness as a response to stress.) The fact that guys express their emotions/stress differently from women isn't a problem - But the guy think comes in when women learn the differences and men just continue to say "women are emotional, guys aren't".
>>>3. How come guys often state their opinions as facts, and their requests as demands? Now, I would concur that this is probably less a male-female interaction thing than varying definitions of what it means to be tactful. However, when I'm communicating, guys often mistake my saying, "I feel that..." for "It is an indisputable fact that..." <<<
Because guys are problem solvers - they are looking for the solution, not the opinion.
and when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail... Guys who get too hung up on problem solving become problem creators. The idea that any situation has "the solution" out there is part of the problem, not an excuse for it.
>>>What's worse, I often feel like they expect me to be more conscientious regarding their feelings than they are of mine. Why is it that so many guys think that saying, "Please don't do (whatever it was I did to upset them) again" is completely reasonable, but my saying, "Listen, John, when you do/say XYZ, it makes me think you believe I'm (insert unflattering adjective here)" is me being hypersensitive?<<<
Because you're the woman - you're supposed to feel, and respond with feeling. They're not.
see above. men and women are equally emotional, and feelings (ego, dominance, need to prove themselves) are just as laced into male responses as women. But the responses come out differently.
>>>4. Must guys have an opinion for eeeeeverything? Is every statement up for debate? Why is it that guys often take a difference of opinion or preference as an opportunity to convert me to their way of seeing things? It doesn't matter what it is. Why do they always try to win, even if there's nothing to win in the first place? <<<
Because men are solution finders, they are hunters. They are supposed to go out, kill the animal and come home to eat it. Seriously. You think this base stuff isn't in their brains still? It sure is!
Again, it's an emotional response. Its ego, pure and simple. Couching it as a vital survival trait is all well and good, certainly makes it seem like something everyone should be doing, but its not. Its just one of the emotional responses guys have. Since its a lot easier for guys to continue on their way interacting only with enshrined guy think it rarely gets challenged, but when it has been challenged, men are just as capable as women of overcoming their instinctive/early socialized response and making a more useful response. Though not, obviously, if when confronted with it they simply respond "cause thats the way men are and its the right way, if I didn't act this way right now you womenfolk would have gotten eaten by a sabertooth tiger back when..."
This isn't a man woman thing, its a dominate culture/dominated culture thing. But the overall culture improves when the exchange of attitudes goes both ways. There is nothing instrinsic to RPGs that requires guy think. If your particular social/rpg group is deeply entreched to the point where you will only accept guys and "guys with breasts" thats one thing, but its not the way rpging is, its just the way you are.
So to the orriginal questions, yes a lot of these are "guy behavious". But when they are so completely entrenched and unwilling to adjust, they become "jerk behaviours". Guys who are not jerks may still have some of these behavious compared to women who have not been guyed, but they have learned to be gamers first. When looking for a new group, I'd look for one that already has woman members (who aren't ashamed of being women) and/or know some of the guys socially first so you can get a feel for how well socialized they are with mixed gender interaction. Though the best strategy for me has just been to form the group myself and make it clear from the outset what behaviours I will and won't tolerate.
we now return you to your regularly scheduled testosterone love fest....
Kahuna burger
