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What made D&D 'evil'?

King_Stannis

Explorer
Dinkeldog said:
In the interest of peace, how about if we settle on this statement:

Most Christians do not think D&D is evil; most people who think D&D is evil are Christians. I would go further and say conservative fundamentalist evangelical Christians...

well put!

and eternalknight, you had to know that the subject of religion would come up in this thread! the two are linked. whenever people start threads like this we always get the "minister's son" stories and the "my mom called the minister and they talked to me for X hours about the evils of D&D". that's great stuff! and i still love to hear it.


one person made a broad statement early in the thread and it was rebuked, and now it's over. there's nothing worthy of closing, now.
 

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DMaple

First Post
If you look hard enough I'm sure you could find some recent murder or suicide "linked" to D&D or roleplaying in some way. I know there were some in Italy a couple of years ago and I think one in Spain last year.

The problem is the link seems to highlight one issue and forgets about the others, like they may have been a heavy drinker, into drugs, crime, depressed or a huge number other factors.

I think you'll find a huge number of murders watch TV, drive a car, or drink Coke, but for some reason that doesn't make the headlines as often (unless they watch violent movies on TV, personally I think "Changing Rooms" is more likely to make me kill someone).
 

Eternalknight

First Post
Draco Argentum said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but D&D is considered extremely geeky in Australia.

Where in Oz are you? In my town, I wouldn't go as far as saying it is accepted, but if you mention that you play D&D people say things like "Yeah I gave it a try once" or "ah ok, I always wondered what that was like". In a town of 14,000, we have a rather large gaming group, ranging in age from 13 to about 45. Maybe you should come and live here:D

King_Stannis: I guess I was just annoyed that the thread went off into a minor debate about whether Christians found D&D evil or not. In retrospect I can see the two are linked; it just wasn't what I originally asked.
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
Crom and His Devils said:
"but only a handful of real extremists think DnD is evil. I'm sorry you live in such an unfortunate area."

Lucky me, I went, as a early teenager, to a church where not only did the youth directors tell the other kids that D&D was of the devil right in front of me...but had a fire-n-brimstone preacher do a little number about the subject too for the congregation (with me in the front row). It was a free(no)-will baptist church, for those playing along at home.
...[Note: I hold no religion, including christianity, in contempt. Just the fundie ding-dongs which appear to be a plague in every culture in the world.]

I don't mean offense by this, but this proves that you came into contact with TWO individual Christians who were anti-D&D, and a crowd of people whose only information is coming from this limited circle of individuals. The entire rest ofthe crowd up until being preached to, most likely didn't have an opinion one way or another. The damaging part is that it is the Church Elders who are usually in control of any given church, and they use limited sources of info to make their decisions. Lack of information is what is demonizing to D&D. Any church who calls it "evil" needs the proper facts before making their decision.

--------------------
Before anyone objects to the next paragraph, please note that the statements I am about to make are true, within the context of the Bible, so keep in mind I am not stating these as absolute fact that one must beleive; only that they are true with regards to the source material.

I always point out one thing to many Christians when making this argument: Saint Thomas, believe it or not, in the Christian Faith was one of the founding supporters of proving something by empirical evidence. (Remember the whole "stick your hand in my wounds" thing?) Thomas said he wouldn't beleive the resurrection until he saw it himself. In the Bible, taking things on faith is spoken of predominantly by Paul, but God was always a believer in proof. The main reason for the biblical miracles was not for deeds, but rather as proof. Jesus' miracles - water to wine, resurrection of Lazarus, Walking on water, etc. etc.? Proof. Therefore, before you make a claim as a Christian, you need proof to back it up. If you have no proof, I believe that you dishonor Jesus' example, and that of Paul, and all Apostles who miracle-worked after him as proof of their veracity and power.
--------------------------

That said, where is the proof that D&D inherently causes evil? Where is the proof that D&D destroys societal ethics and morals, rather than builds them up? This must be asked of someone who espouses the evils of D&D, and many can be tripped up when presented the facts of these things. Even their very own statistics on suicides prove them wrong, when compared to the national average; D&D LESSENS the chances of suicide compared to the national average.

For every J. Dallas Egbert, there are hundreds of stories of how D&D has forged friendships, taught object lessons, and improved lives. Like any object, it must be taken in moderation; D&D, like golf, basketball, and food, can also destroy lives if that life makes unwise choices about moderation. But if Game-playing is not "unhealthy" then D&D is no less healthy than playing any other type of game, or paricipating in acting.

To many fundamentalist Christians (which is different from Conservative Christians), there is no way to reconcile D&D with living a healthy life, the same way they would not be able to reconcile dancing, or listening to secular music, or wearing any garment that uncovers a woman's head. But that is a different discussion, and one that D&D is a minor to moot point in. Even Christians disagree strongly on this point.
 

MaxKaladin

First Post
I suspect the Stackpole report, which you should be able to find online, will list most of the major incidents -- and refute them.

The thing is, I've been around for almost 20 years and most of the 'evidence' I've heard cited that D&D is evil is annoyingly vague. It's always "This guy" who was a "good christian" and then he played D&D and suddenly became evil and did all sorts of horrible things. It is seldom that you ever get any actual facts or anything like that.

Oh, for all the Catholics citing their religion as proof christians are not against D&D, be aware that the sects of christianity who think D&D is evil also think Catholics are both evil and most assuredly not christian. Jack Chick even did a tract on it once.
 

taipan

First Post
Evil

Hello,
Back in the 80's there were several high profile murder and/or suicides that got linked to DnD by virture of the Teen had once played the game therefore it was the cause. I don't remember the specifics of hardly any. It was a sure way of taking a random murder/suicde to nation exposure.

By the virture that the police and media were reporting on this connection, a lot of main-stream Americans came under the Anti-DnD sway. It did die down in the mainstream by and large.

I was afraid it would really hit the mainstream again a few years ago, when we had the Kentucky (I live in Tennessee) Vampire Murders. Basically, a group of psycho-paths, who also happen to play Vampire, murdered some people in Kentucky in a ritualistic looking way.

Surprisingly, there has not been the hype-fallout I was expecting. So who knows, maybe it is getting a little better.

Taipan
 

King_Stannis

Explorer
DMaple said:
....personally I think "Changing Rooms" is more likely to make me kill someone...

back off, pal. :) that happens to be one of my guilty pleasures. my wife and i also like "ground force", too. you got a problem with that, huh!! :)
 

Wolfspider

Explorer
I don't mean offense by this, but this proves that you came into contact with TWO individual Christians who were anti-D&D, and a crowd of people whose only information is coming from this limited circle of individuals. The entire rest ofthe crowd up until being preached to, most likely didn't have an opinion one way or another.

No, it sounds to me like he ran into a group of people who were anti-D&D. If a mob decides to follow the words of a leader without fully investigating whether what that leader is telling them is true or not, then I consider that mob of people just as guilty as the original instigators. Rational people should investigate before they decide, not just blindly follow.
 
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Dr Midnight

Explorer
http://www.chick.com/articles/dnd.asp
"Dungeons and Dragons is a tragic and tangled subject. It is essentially a feeding program for occultism and witchcraft. "

http://www.chick.com/articles/frpg.asp
"This is not just chess, football or bridge. This is a game that envelops the player in an entirely different fantasy world in which the power of magic and violence is pervasive."

From our good friend Jack Chick. He didn't write these, but they're a great insight into the topic here. These discuss, in detail, why D&D is evil from the point of view of one of THEM.

An interesting point I read here was that if you "cast" a spell in the game, who's to say that in doing so you haven't actually invoked the black arts? I forget exactly what it was, but it proposes that perhaps if you're pretending to cast a spell, you may actually be casting a spell, which is of course evil.
 
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Horacio

LostInBrittany
Supporter
Dr Midnight said:
An interesting point I read here was that if you "cast" a spell in the game, who's to say that in doing so you haven't actually invoked the black arts? I forget exactly what it was, but it proposes that perhaps if you're pretending to cast a spell, you may actually be casting a spell, which is of course evil.

Now is when somebody begins with the old joke answer to that Chick's assertion.

My DM must be null, because after ten years playing I cannot cast a single Fireball... Maybe I should change of gaming group

:)

I've seen it some twenty times in this board ;)
 

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