What made D&D 'evil'?

[Trevalon Moonleirion]

Warning: Opinions approaching directly ahead.

I hate to disagree with the ultimate gaming guru, but I really think Hitler's charisma was more a combination of being in the right place at the right time and being a tremendously powerful speaker.

Germany after WWI was in economic shambles--everyone has heard the tales of loaves of bread costing several million marks (is that the right currency even...my brain's not functioning at its peak right now..) Germany was ripe for someone like Hitler to come along. Hitler, already a hate-filled little man, was able to build so much support because nearly any ideas preached to the German masses sounded wonderful--it was SOMETHING being done rather than nothing. There's no denying Hitler's capabilities as an orator, but I'm not sure that he would be as popular without the economic problems in Germany after the defeat in WWI.

Mind you, these ideas are just my personal opinions, and I'm nothing but a young guy with a soft spot for history, so defend or refute as you will.

 

[Jeremy]

I think his powerful oration was a sign of his high charisma. I've listened to low charisma speeches (who has gotten through school without trying to make it through one?), so there is a definate spectrum there for comparison.

That he could suggest such (to us) insane and downright evil courses in his speeches and people would not only miss the fact that it is evil (and probably against their nature) but also alter themselves to agree with him and surpass that to be fired up about their new outlook...

How do you fire up a populace that was crushed by all the reparations they had to make for the first WW and talk them into going out again in arms? Especially when you are already a livid target? I'd say a lot of people, were in need for anything to change their situation, but the suggestion of taking up arms again would be something way down on the list.

That he could take them from unfriendly, to neutral, to friendly, to helpful... That's one hell of a charsima check. Or perform check if he's got ranks in perform (pep rally, take on the world, and atrocities 101). <shrugs>

 

[Vacuum Elemental]

So in other words, Hitler didn't have a high charisma. He may have had a few ranks in leadership and diplomacy and the DC's for fascist influence were very low? I don't know enough about Hitler to make that distinction.

People opposing the RPG industry may have exploited the Hitler reference. Even if the reference is explained or changed for "PC" purposes, fantatics will continue their warped misinterpretations.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Re: Warning: Opinions approaching directly ahead.

I hate to disagree with the ultimate gaming guru, but I really think Hitler's charisma was more a combination of being in the right place at the right time and being a tremendously powerful speaker.

No, no, no!

for those who haven't read about Hitler, you must read what is said about him by those who met him--political opponents who really hated him. His personal "magnetism" was absolutely incredible. It is *not* as a tyrant/dictator that I refer to hum; the 18 charisma has to do with being in his presence and speaking with him.

Read the accounts and you'll see. He absolutely mezmerized people. Nevile Chamberlain, for example did want peace, but he was hardly the foolish youth to be taken in easily, a politian of decades experience. The force of hitler's personality commanded him totally.

Churchill, on the ohter hand, and himself a man of sonsiderable charisma, opposed him from afar, never had to try that face-to-face.

Gary

 

[Ulrick]

I agree with Gary on this one.

I've read and watched first hand accounts of people who knew and encountered Hitler. Had an incredible presence to him.

Here's one instance from a man who saw Hitler ride by in a parade. It from an interview from a documentry on the History Channel, think. The man said something like "He looked directly into my eyes, and I swear it was like he knew me. I told the man next to me 'Hitler looked into my eyes' and the guy said 'No! He looked into my eyes."

Hitler's ability for public speaking was astonding. Often he never practiced a speach before hand, except perhaps a few notes with keywords.

Even though he's been dead for over 50 years, there are people who are still influenced by him.

Ulrick

 

[Al]

The incredible thing about Hitler is that he convinced rational people to commit totally irrational and evil acts.

If you analyse a Hitler speech closely, what he is saying is usually factually inaccurate, unsubstantiated sophistry or thoroughly illogical- and of course unspeakably evil. Yet to those listening to him, these speeches were magnetic: they hang on his every word, and cheered his racist meanderings wholeheartedly.

Charisma is the ability to make people believe you when you're wrong. This is what Hitler had.

As for the other examples, none of them possessed this sort of charisma, with the possible exception of Churchill, and even he did not really possess the same persuasive powers. Most of the others were talking to an already supportive group of backers. Hitler convinced even his enemies. And finally, an historian's nitpick: Napoleon was not very charismatic at all. His coup in 1799 was nearly laughed out by the Council of Ancients because of the poor delivery of his speech: he was a general, not an orator. His legendary charisma was generated by a myth propagated by Stendhal, Chauteaubriand, Beranger, Hugo, Las Cases and other 19th century French writers, poets and artists.

 

[Corinth]

The only proof that you need of Hitler's charisma is to watch Triumph of the Will. My father made me watch it as a child just to prove to me what he did, and that I was not immune. Father was right, and I've remembered the lesson to this day.

 

[rounser]

There's a lot of moderator "second-guessing" on this thread which I'm finding annoying to read.

I'd hazard that we could probably safely leave the moderating (including warnings for going too far) to the mods...

 

[Wippit Guud]

If they can't deal with it, f**k 'em!

Who else can you think of that actually possessed a charisma like that of Hitler? His mere presence made people determined to oppose him at every turn bow to his whims.

Good grief, I suppose a biography of Adolph must really be high on the "Satanist book" list then...

Gary

Whoa... I'm on your side Gary, I thought it was a perfect choice... I've just heard it quoted as an example...

 

[Lady Dragon]

First off I will say that Adolph Hitler was undoubtedly one of the most evil men ever to live on this planet.He was also one of the most charismatic.He went from extreme poverty and prison to being hairs breath away from ruling europe.Yes he was opportunisic but he did get common people to believe in him.to follow him,to fight for him and to turn their backs as he commited atrocities.

Mr.Gygax certainly used the correct example to point out that charisma has nothing to do with phyisical looks but is a intanible ability that some people exude.

I'm sure everyone know someone that is like that.Someone that you like,someone that you want to be freinds with just by the force of their personality.