• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

What Makes A Good Dungeon, and a Good Dungeon Campaign/Adventure?

Doug McCrae

Legend
Variety of encounter. Size depends on ability to provide this. If it's getting same-y after five encounters, stop there, that's your dungeon. If you've got six hundred uniquely interesting rooms that aren't just stuff like 16 bandits, 9 orcs, 5 bugbears OR if you can make the encounters with bandits, orcs and bugbears feel distinctly different then you are doing well.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Variety of encounter. Size depends on ability to provide this. If it's getting same-y after five encounters, stop there, that's your dungeon. If you've got six hundred uniquely interesting rooms that aren't just stuff like 16 bandits, 9 orcs, 5 bugbears OR if you can make the encounters with bandits, orcs and bugbears feel distinctly different then you are doing well.

What's the difference between pac man and Mrs. pac man, really?

Well, you see, Mrs. pac man has a little bow on her head.
 

Hand of Evil

Hero
Epic
Your players are right and so are you, you just have to meet in the middle. You have dungeons and then you have DUNGEONS!

Dungeons are enviroments, they have a look, feel and an ecosystem. Knowing this should influance your descriptions and the creatures you place within it. It also, should effect information you present to your players, you have to provide the atmosphere. A hide out for bandit is different for a tomb of the worm god, but one can lead to the other, and your players should not that difference.

Three types of Dungeons:
  • Simple - One to five levels of a total of 35 rooms or less. Theses are your bases/dens and hideouts. Finish them up in one or three sessions.
  • Transitional - Two or more Simple dungeons strung together to form a dungeon complex. Also, can lead to the 3rd type. The thing about this type is that each transition gets harder and more difficult.
  • Mega-Dungeons - I have always found mega dungeons are best handled as a city, with wards and districts.
 

TheNovaLord

First Post
12 - 15 areas only

must make sense for its purpose / former purpose / future purpose

where it is must be 'possible/sensible too'

a chance for social encounters

it must be alive, unless it is truly 'dead'

choices, options

hints to the next adventure / dungeon

possiblity that the party may/need come back later in the campaign

I love dungeons, built by X, taken over and expanded by Y, trashed by adventurers, re-established by Z....so there is a beautiful rainbow of experience / challenge /interest / possibilities for the next party due in!!
 

Dausuul

Legend
It's important to remember that a dungeon is merely a convenient framing device, a tool for the DM to guide the flow of an adventure without resorting to blatant railroading. A series of boring slugfests does not magically become fun because you put it in a dungeon.

With that in mind, all the usual principles of encounter design apply. One thing I find tremendously helpful is to think, "Why do the players care about the outcome of this encounter?" If the only answer you can come up with is "Because they have to complete it in order to reach the next encounter," then it needs to be reworked or eliminated.

Beyond that, if you want the dungeon itself to be memorable--work it into the encounters. Include clues about the dungeon's background and purpose, and provide rewards for players who put the clues together correctly. That will encourage them to think about the dungeon as a real place rather than just background fluffery.

(However, beware of putting in massive lumps of exposition. You want to tease your players. Make them work to extract the history of the dungeon from you, one scrap at a time, rather than shoving it in their faces. If they decide not to bother, that's how it goes; figure out how to be more enticing next time.)

A coherent theme also does wonders for enhancing the feel of a dungeon. You can approach this in a few ways.

The simplest dungeon theme is the "creature theme," wherein the denizens consist of a specific creature type plus various hangers-on. For example, an "orc dungeon" would contain a lot of orcs, plus an assortment of critters that orcs might keep as pets, guards, or slaves. This is easiest to do, but can be somewhat limiting in terms of encounter variety.

More versatile is the "environment theme," in which the dungeon environment drives the concept. A "tomb dungeon" is an example of this; you could have undead rising from their sarcophagi, animated statues set to serve as guardians, and an assortment of vermin that have moved in over the centuries. The central feature of this dungeon is that it is the resting place of the dead, and all the encounters flow from that conceit.

Finally, you can have an "owner theme." This type of dungeon is ruled by a single mighty master (dragons and wizards are the most common). It's different from a "creature theme" because there's only one of the master's creature type--a dragon lair seldom has more than one dragon--but all of the dungeon's other denizens live in the master's shadow, and its presence is the single most important factor in their lives. Some may be scavengers feeding off the remains of its kills. Others are prisoners, or slaves, or guardians. Still others might be the original inhabitants who now skulk about in terror of the behemoth that has usurped their home.
 
Last edited:

meomwt

First Post
A "Good Dungeon" is one where the group has a fun time exploring, looting and killing, and both players and DM come away with smiles and happy memories.

For some groups, that means Castle Greyhawk. For others, it would be Copperknight Hold (first entry in the 4E Dungeon Delve tome).

As a DM, it is important to gauge what will entertain your players and tailor your adventure to their needs. But always, leave puzzles, hints, fore-shadowing and chances to play in character in there. A massive four-hour slug-fest is rarely a recipe for a memorable evening's role-playing.
 

grodog

Hero
Some good previous discussions on what makes good dungeons; most, but not all, of these links are strongly 0e/1e in focus:

Mega-Dungeons
===========
KNIGHTS & KNAVES ALEHOUSE • View topic - Key elements to good dungeon design 101
http://knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb3/viewforum.php?f=28
Dragonsfoot • View topic - Megadungeon mapping

Map Design/Analysis
========
(both threads above too)
Dungeon layout, map flow and old school game design - EN World D&D / RPG News
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...ld-these-maps-make-fun-dungeon-adventure.html

Encounter Design
=============
Dragonsfoot • View topic - Megadungeon filling
Dragonsfoot • View topic - So-Cal Min-Con Adventures (T. Fosters posts on this page are good analysis of the breakdown of encounter types in OD&D/Holmes/AD&D/etc.)

Those are all sterling examples of good dungeon design discussions. There are a number of other design ideas and principles laid out in various old-school style blogs. One I'll call out in particular is called "Jaquaying the Dungeon" and it's at The Alexandrian - Archive
 
Last edited:

It's frequently mentioned about at all my gaming tables that "dungeons are boring."

Why? It's difficult to respond to the objection without knowing the reasoning behind it. In my experience, good dungeon design is pretty much congruent with good adventure design generally. For every adventure, dungeon or otherwise, that I design, I try to come up with a Theme and a Mystery. Theme is what gives you continuity and verisimilitude: if your players are exploring the Dungeon of the Blizzard Wizard, they'll balk if they encounter a lot of fire-based monsters that don't seem to have a reason to be there. So give everything you include a believable reason to be there. Mystery is what gives the players a motivation to be there: they need to put together scattered clues placed in the dungeon to open the door/find the treasure/rescue the princess/whatever. So give them things to figure out and the means to do so. These concepts obviously are not new, and you can play around with them at various levels of abstraction to make bigger or smaller dungeons, but as long as you have both of them in any adventure, dungeon or otherwise, you should be fine.
 

S'mon

Legend
My preference is for Mentzer Red Box style campaign design, with many smaller dungeons (ca 6-20 encounter areas) located within a 'tentpole wilderness' or 'tentpole city', rather than the classic 'tentpole megadungeon'. I had a good time running the Lost City of Barakus campaign over nearly 2 years, but it was the presence of several dozen mini-dungeons, wilderness enounters, and urban adventures in addition to the main dungeon that made it so good, I think.
 

gamerprinter

Mapper/Publisher
I'm running a dungeon this coming weekend for our PF group, really more for nostalgia and breaking the pace of the normal urban campaign we're playing in, however, personally as a DM or player, dungeons are boring to me. And my suspension of disbelief isn't there at all. I don't care for dungeon adventures.

Large sprawing dungeons are the worst concept to play in and a decent 20 chamber dungeon is more believeable and doable for me. Especially because it will end and we can get back to playing the surface settings I prefer.

What has already been said, a good dungeon has the same qualities of a good adventure anywhere - a point to its existence and a reason to go visiting one.

If you were offering me the chance to play in a campaign long dungeon setting, I would kill myself now... not my cup of tea.

GP
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top