• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

What makes a good Setting?

JackSmithIV

First Post
Frankly, I believe that all great settings would be nothing if they're not thematically strong. A lot of people talk about settings having great flavor, but a lot of this is apt use of a strong theme that runs throughout the game world. Game worlds are almost entirely defined by them, even non-D&D worlds:

Eberron: A post-war world with pulp fantasy action, swashbuckling adventure, noir mystery, and magical technology.

Ravenloft: A dark dominion of terror, reminiscent of all classic horror motifs.

Warhammer Fantasy's Old-World: A dark, epic land full of greed, corruption, death, and war.

You could go on forever, but you get the point. No where in there do I talk about people, places, pantheons, geography... any of that. Even the campaign-seed they give you in the DMG (often referred to as Points of Light) is a theme to which you can add whatever you like.

You wanna create a great world? Ask yourself a few questions like this:

How do characters feel in your world, just by living in it?
What's adventuring like in your world?
What is a "hero" like in your world, and how do people think of heroes?
What are the common people like?
What are the rulers like?
How do you attain power in your world?

Answering questions like that will get you much closer to desgning a world than "What are the names of the kingdoms" or "Where are the oceans", because they inspire your imagination, and from there, design will come naturally and easy.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Summer-Knight925

First Post
the 'theme' I am going for is desperation

the world is in a state of desperation after not only a great war that claimed thousands of lifes, but in the process brought small kingdoms together to form one great kingdom to fight the invaders from the north, but ,due to the war's 'over-use' of magic, a cataclysmic 'explosion' shook the earth. 75% of the people died, 95% of all architecture was damaged (80% of all building was blasted and destroyed) and the people are trying anything they can to survive.
As the PCs fight for survival, fame, power, and yes, gold.
The idea fueling this is simplicty in adventures... i hate it when politics gets involved in the D&D world, there needs to be 1 major kingdom with 1 enemy, maybe have a few other kingdoms that are part of the major one. thats all the politics i want to get.
not having houses to adhere to and countries trying to have war
its more fun when its simple... i think may of you would agree
 

Afrodyte

Explorer
Frankly, I believe that all great settings would be nothing if they're not thematically strong. A lot of people talk about settings having great flavor, but a lot of this is apt use of a strong theme that runs throughout the game world.

(snip really good points)

You wanna create a great world? Ask yourself a few questions like this:

How do characters feel in your world, just by living in it?
What's adventuring like in your world?
What is a "hero" like in your world, and how do people think of heroes?
What are the common people like?
What are the rulers like?
How do you attain power in your world?

Answering questions like that will get you much closer to desgning a world than "What are the names of the kingdoms" or "Where are the oceans", because they inspire your imagination, and from there, design will come naturally and easy.

Exactly! I thought I was alone in all of this, but I'm glad to find out that I'm not. Perhaps we should do more setting creation threads along these lines. I think that would be cool.
 

fba827

Adventurer
Being able to get your players to understand your setting is also important -- so nothing that would be overly complicated for your particular group of players to understand (*every group has a different threshold on this).
 

JackSmithIV

First Post
Exactly! I thought I was alone in all of this, but I'm glad to find out that I'm not. Perhaps we should do more setting creation threads along these lines. I think that would be cool.

That would be awesome! The forum could use some more non-edition wars thread.
 

Hussar

Legend
I have been trying to make my own D&D setting, but I just can quite get it right...

What makes a world good to adventure in?
I have asked this question to myself over and over
sitting at my desk with a large piece of paper, trying to think up a map to atleast give me some sort of 'base' to work from

I know many people start small and work out, but how I DM and how the players are, we start 1st levels every where at any time. We could have just finished Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil and then start a new group of 1st levels onanother adventure half-way across the world.
Its just how we play, starting big with a big picture so we can play alot of characters.

So if anyone has any methods they use to make a world (just the geography, not necessarily kingdoms and political boundiries) please post these methods here to help me.

-Thank you-
Summer-Knight925

The following is great advice:

Frankly, I believe that all great settings would be nothing if they're not thematically strong. A lot of people talk about settings having great flavor, but a lot of this is apt use of a strong theme that runs throughout the game world. Game worlds are almost entirely defined by them, even non-D&D worlds:

Eberron: A post-war world with pulp fantasy action, swashbuckling adventure, noir mystery, and magical technology.

Ravenloft: A dark dominion of terror, reminiscent of all classic horror motifs.

Warhammer Fantasy's Old-World: A dark, epic land full of greed, corruption, death, and war.

You could go on forever, but you get the point. No where in there do I talk about people, places, pantheons, geography... any of that. Even the campaign-seed they give you in the DMG (often referred to as Points of Light) is a theme to which you can add whatever you like.

You wanna create a great world? Ask yourself a few questions like this:

How do characters feel in your world, just by living in it?
What's adventuring like in your world?
What is a "hero" like in your world, and how do people think of heroes?
What are the common people like?
What are the rulers like?
How do you attain power in your world?

Answering questions like that will get you much closer to desgning a world than "What are the names of the kingdoms" or "Where are the oceans", because they inspire your imagination, and from there, design will come naturally and easy.

but, if I might, can I offer a different direction.

Instead of starting with a setting, start with a campaign. Traditional campaign design advice, whether top down or bottom up, basically has you creating a setting in a vaccuum. Even JackSmith's excellent advice is basically the same thing. Create a world, then figure out what kind of games you want to run in that world.

IMO, this is backwards.

Start by thinking about what kind of campaign do you want to run. Even go so far as to think how long (level wise) you expect the campaign to go. Sketch out a very rough outline of the first six adventures (or so). Nothing detailed, just a general direction for the campaign that takes them through the lower levels (say up to about 8th in 3e or the end of Heroic in 4e).

Once you have that, your setting more or less writes itself.

Say you settle on a campaign of Lovecraftian horror. You want indescribably nasty critters to ooze out of the woodwork and scare the living bejezuz out of everyone. Cool. So, what do you need, settingwise, to create that campaign arc?

Well, you're going to need a central civilization for the PC's to come from, the "known world" so to speak. Then you're going to need a number of isolated locations, each more and more isolated than the last. Starting with a Shadows of Innsmouth fishing village, then moving on to a lost temple in the mountains, and so on and so forth.

Now, you kill two birds with one stone. You have a functioning setting AND a complete campaign at the same time. Using traditional setting design methods, you have to do everything twice - create the setting, then go back and create the adventures. Why make so much work for yourself? Do it once and you can be sure that the setting that you create actually ties into the campaign you want to run.
 

Drakmar

Explorer
I like where Hussar was going.

To me, how I do it is start with what do I want the gameplay to be like. What style of play do my players enjoy, and what style of play do I enjoy dming.

For my campaign setting I had a couple of ideas that I liked:
1. I wanted a heroic game, where players ran around doing good deeds and could save the world.
2. I wanted a world where a Roman style army had encounted the Mongolian Horde.
3. I wanted it to be internally consistent, and not some disconnected series of dungeon crawls.
4. I wanted the players to be able to become gods/dragons/super-powers.
5. I also wanted the bad guys to be "Eeeevil". (yay for Yuan-ti)
6. I wanted Magic Items to mean something.

Conveniently 4E came out about halfway through my design phase, and the three tiers really helped shape things and the new system lends itself to this style of play.

After i had that I did things like, write the creation myths for the wacky god stuff, work out what was going to endanger the world, and how the players could stop it or help it or mitigate the impacts.

Then I started building the adventure path, with the plot hooks. Depending on what the next set of players make I will customise the magic items to suit the party and the characters specifically. (it's their story after all)

All in all, once you have that overarching plot, players tend to WANT to know more about the setting, more about the pcs, more about the plot. And with a plot you know more about the motivations, the movers and shakers, and are more easily able to keep the work internally consistent.

Regards
D.
 

Loonook

First Post
I could not agree more with the idea of themes being extremely important to the setting. Right now I have four settings in which I work and DM, and each has a central theme:

1.) Gesh - A lot of 'Eastern' concepts given over to a non-Eastern setting. Ideas of service, honor, adherence to blood and state, rebirth and the constant growth of the spirit as it passes through many lives, ideas of illusion and reality centered around cultures which range from caste-based empires (the Mescari) to magocratic bureaucracy (the Imperial State of Ostar) and animistic strongholds (Zajara, Kuoln).

2.) (Unnamed Setting 1) - Large amounts of folklore and enlightenment principles, the seeking of knowledge being both a boon and a bane. This is probably one of the more fun settings as you have all levels of progress and development of groups, but when it comes down to it each group must choose what they will gain and what they are willing to lose for advancement. It may be their cultures, their 'humanity', or other elements, but there's always some sort of price when dealing with these things.

3.) Decades Cycle - Really based around evolution. From the earliest games to the latest, each game is about our world's choices of where it wishes to go. To be honest this Modern setting is influenced by all of the rest of them.

4.) (Unnamed Setting 2) - A lot of elements of the Other, states of mind, and how power affects people. Lots of political movement (even in comparison to other settings) and the development therein.

From those ideas, and my own concepts of 'how things work' I develop where I'm going. It doesn't matter how fancy you make a setting if you don't have a good idea of what that base is . . . and over time you may shift that base. However, you have to be willing to move with the setting; sometimes you'll just feel something that says 'hey, this is how X should work'.

Go with it, and let the rules be damned ;).

Slainte,

-Loonook.
 

Jack7

First Post
I like a lot of the advice given so far, even the stuff that conflicts as a starting point because differences in approach are not always mutually exclusive. As a matter of fact it is often possible to find or create a good synthesis of differing objectives if you go about it the right way.

As far as to your question about how to begin, I've done it both ways. I've started by designing the entire world, and writing two or three full campaigns before I ever ran a single player through anything, and I've done it by writing a single adventure and letting the players discover things as they go along. That is you flesh out the world ad hoc, along with the players.

Depending upon how you execute these various methods either can be very successful, or kinda disastrous.

I'll return to this thread later because I'm going to be writing an essay on Real World Historical Elements in the development of a campaign and a background setting/milieu. However I have discovered a few things down through the years, and I've been playing D&D (as one example) almost from the time it was invented.

1. The world is not really for your benefit, it is for the benefit of the players. That is you write and create the world, but the players have to play in it, and the characters have to live in it and explore it. You will learn things by creating it, and you will enjoy other things in creating it, and it will be a lot of hard work at other times, but in the end, if it was all about you then you could and would design it for yourself. But it ain't for you, is it? Not really. So if you're really smart you write and design the world not for your benefit, and not for what interests you (alone), but for what will interest your players. Now I started out playing with Middle and High School buddies, most of whom I had grown up with, so I knew them well, and they knew me well, and we shared many of the same interests. So if you know your players, and what they are like, then you write not only adventures that will interest them, but campaigns, cultures, political and military systems, religious motifs and themes, mythological elements, historical eras and events that interest them (the players) as well. Now that won't be hard if you are familiar with your players and you share similar interests. But it is very much like writing a fiction book. You aren't writing it for yourself (that is, what you want is not your chief consideration if you want the book to sell), you are writing it for your reading audience. It is the reader to whom you target the book, and likewise it is the player for whom you design the world. (You could for instance include all kinds of really cool and flashy and extremely complicated, but ultimately useless elements, as far as the player is concerned. Great for you, maybe even extremely stimulating to you as a creator, but of no benefit to the player. So what was really accomplished? Not much. The purpose of the game and the setting is not to expose the brilliance of the designer, he should be so brilliant as a matter of fact that he disappears completely. The best artist is never noticed. Only the art. The best author is never heard. Only the story. The best creator is invisible. All that is seen is the handiwork. In that way the player is never distracted by the creator, and the design is never confused with the world. That is how a sense of reality is maintained, not by interjecting yourself into the world, but by disappearing from it so that the player can explore freely and without hindrance from you. The player forgets he is in a game, he only remembers he is the game.) Now of course you should include elements that are of interest to you, even so far as to promote elements you want to explore as well as hope that the players will want to explore. Since many of your players will probably have similar cultural, political, religious, histological, mythological, fictional, etc. interests as yourself it is quite probable and possible to design a world which easily accommodates both your interests (because your interests and the players will probably overlap in several respects). But remember this, you aren't creating the world as an exercise in self-indulgence. You are designing a world which, if it is successful, must stimulate the on-going interests of the players. (If it didn't stimulate your players, as opposed to just any old players, then you could just buy any commercial setting and run that. Any world would do. But you're creating the world with certain types of other people in mind, not just yourself in mind.) Imagine God, for instance, creating a world which interested only him, or an author writing a book with no other audience in mind than himself. How successful would such ventures really be? You have to have in mind what the players want, what their interests are, what they would like to explore, what cultures they are in sympathy with, what historical eras fascinate them, and so forth and so on. So either use what you know of the characters and natures and interests of your players, or just sit down with them and ask them what they want? What would interest them? Why? how? When? The use that information to assist in developing your milieu. But if you don't design with the player in mind then you might as well be writing a book for yourself. And if you do don't be surprised if the number of copies you sell is somewhat limited by that failure of design.

2. I think Jack gave some good advice about general thematic background elements. Background elements, even when they are so subtle as to be almost unnoticeable at first are very good "anchors," so that your setting will not be adrift in a Sargasso Sea of currentless stagnation. With themes, of various kinds, general, structural, plot-line, historical, religious, fantastic, etc. you have a course you can chart, you have wind in your sails, you have a star to steer by. A milieu without a thematic compass is subject to every gale that blows, has no port of destination, and no rudder by which to steer her course. So insert themes and given those themes methods by which the player can attach himself, so that he can take advantage of the currents those themes help navigate. As you plot the themes of your world think to yourself, "how will my players plot their own way through the themes of this world?" But as with writing and designing the world for your players, see what themes the players find of greatest interest. Then take the themes that interest your players, and the themes you want to develop and explore in the world you are creating, and see if you cannot develop interesting, and even stimulating syntheses of thematic elements that will make the world interesting for your to design, and equally interesting for them to explore and adventure through.


Anyways good luck and Godspeed.
My overarching advice is this, know your players and their interests, know the genre and genre interests generally speaking, and know what interests and fascinates you and see what kind of accommodations you can reach on all points to make your milieu as interesting as possible for all parties concerned.

But if you don't give the players what they want, and you don't stimulate their interests, then it doesn't matter how ingenious you think your creation is, it just won't sell. And if it won't sell, then it's not a world anyone else will want to visit.

And you want the very opposite of that.
 

Summer-Knight925

First Post
I have had Unreal tournament 3 for a while now... but never really played the story line or new what the game was about..
my xboxlive membership has been up for a while, so i thought i would catch up on some stories while i waited to get cash so i could renew my membership

after beating the game... i wanted to cross part of it over into D&D, but how?

the small 'clans' made up an intersting idea...

As i said in earlier posts, i wanted the dwarves to be more important... so i got to thinking

DWARVEN CLANS, they really dont war with each other anymore, now its a 'cold war' of weapon, magic and economic races...
the main bad guys in UR3 have this darkness to them... so how could i use them as a template, why not "the plane of shadow"?
perfect, now i have Duergar (dwarves that crossed over to the plane of shadow) and could this not also explain drow (elves the crossed over to the plane of shadow), i could explain all those dark versions of the races. But it wasnt enough to completely make them 'evil' enough to be villians, so there drow, big deal, we can just avoid them...

so i started spit balling ideas again...
why not a template that could make very evil NPCs
this is how i created the

SHADOW-SELF template
its a version of the PC, a twin in every way, all but one... the shadow-self has darker features and has a dark aura (it doesnt do anything but make them easier to tell apart)... they are created by a spell(or power for you 4E players) that copies the PCs and makes these nwe bad guys...

i got the idea from a zelda game


i also thought, "how could i make a fearsome, powerful badguy for the PCs to look forward to fighting"
that is how i came up with the SHALROG (a balor or balrog made of shadow and instead of fire, negative energy)

in other news on this topic
my players have been beging me to do this for a while

Orcs and Goblins (and kobolds i guess) are now important to society, and thus, you can have orc and goblin and kobold characters.
I also created Yuan-ti Whole bloods (the weakest yaun-ti, but you can have one as a player character)

YAUN-TI WHOLEBLOODS
-+2 dex, -2 str, -2 con, -2 cha
-Bite: 1d3+str(light weapon)+poison (DC13 For, 1d6 Con)
-Fav Class: Ranger
-Medium
-30ft speed
-+1 for all FORTITUDE SAVES

if you want to use it, go ahead... i really dont care
it can make things interesting

for a spin, you could have it so the Yaun-ti Whole bloods hate all other yaun-ti (since the whole bloods serve as slaves)

i am also working on a 3E class, but it could easily be transfered over to 4E
its a spell caster who opens small portals to other planes with their blood (since they are 'unstuck' in the planes)
i call it a BloodMage

so ive made quite a bit of progress yesterday

happy thanksgiving

-Summer-Knight925
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top