D&D 5E What separates a sandbox adventure from an AP?

[goatunit]

Correct. The first "Adventure Path" was Age of Worms, which premiered in Dungeon Magazine. It stood out because the magazine published an adventure in the series each month for twelve months, which was unprecedented. A1-4 is a pretty good example of a proto-ap. I would sooner point to the GDQ series (Against the Giants 1-3, Decent into the Depths of the Earth 1-3, and Queen of the Demonweb Pits).

 

[Manchu]

So is an "adventure path" just a published campaign?

 

[Mark CMG]

A1-4 is a pretty good example of a proto-ap.

I like that.

 

[Manchu]

Ugh ... not me. Why redefine D&D history according to Paizo product branding?

 

[Tormyr]

So is an "adventure path" just a published campaign?

Essentially. The early ones, like Age of Worms, were separately published adventures that were designed to be played in order. The recent 5e ones are more tightly coupled (and published) as one long adventure. I really liked Chris Perkins influence of having three major plot lines. You don't know how they end, but it informs how the world grows and develops outside of the PCs influence. This was part of what helped MiBG and LotCS seem like such rich adventures (that and the great setting books). Things were always happening, and the PCs had to make decisions as to where they would go and how they would influence things.

Where that adventure design seemed to come from is Chris Perkins' concept of having multiple plot lines going in a campaign setting. To summarize horribly, Chris Perkins campaign setting had the Dragovar (Dragonborn) empire ruling the majority of the world. The Sea Kings (pirate/merchant lords) were a semi-autonomous group that handle trade (think Dune or Star Wars for an example) within the empire. An invasion is being planned by star beings (think Warlock patron), as well as the Illithid empire from behind a magical barrier. They are placing brains/souls of fallen warriors in mechanical bodies for their armies (warforged). The details in that were horribly mangled, but you get the idea.

Within that setting, there were doctors experimenting on children to make super soldiers, devils making pacts with the PCs, competing spy networks, floating cities, competing merchant kings, dragons a plenty, and lots of other things that can start an adventure. Many NPCs were generated on the fly, but he writes down each one so he can refer back to it. One of the nice things about his own blog is that he had two different groups on two different nights going through the campaign setting. The examples of goings on that he writes about let the reader see how different groups can go through the same setting and end up in wildly different places.

I can't recommend enough taking a few hours to go through the blog from back to front. Newer DMs who are thinking about starting their own campaign setting will receive a wealth of good ideas, and there are good tips for anyone in there.

 

[Zak S]

The term itself is used to complain about feeling railroaded places you didn't want to go, which took up your time while you were there, and ultimately you wished you could get away from but couldn't because you always would have to get back on the train. The term is not meant for the mere fact you can be taken somewhere by the train. If it's where you're going, and efficient, it's a great format.

Players can feel led by the nose in encounters, in dungeons or other locations, or in the story. You can write any of these without leading them by the nose, though. The DM establishes the relative importance of everything, including the characters in terms of how they fit into the setting and what their opportunities will be even if they always get what they want.

A good railroad is a series of events and challenges, maintaining relevance or spicing things up, where the players can get off at any time and still be able to play with the same time. I am trying to think of a better term, given the negative connotations of railroad. Perhaps it would be a story, or an adventure synopsis. The players can decide what this will be, or the DM can make events happen.

The term theory heads use for consciously enjoying railroading is "participationism".

And "adventure paths" are definitely that--there are many opportunities in the modules with that label to offer more choice that are not taken and there is explicit advice to ensure certain set-pieces occur.

A player can think "Ok, this is where we're supposed to go for the big fight" and be fine with it.

And that's fine: they like that.

But I'm simply saying: not everyone does. Alot of players do not want to play along, they want a real sandbox.

 

[Manchu]

Sounds like the first AP might have actually been Shadows of Yog-Sothoth.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

It sounds like what your players in the OP might want is a sandbox with a calendar of timed events in the background that'll happen (accelerating toward chaos) if the players don't do something.

And maybe other things that will go just fine as long as the PCs don't take the treasure, don't kill the lich, and Don't Push That Button.

Nice job breaking it, hero. ;-)

 

[Staffan]

Come to think of it, I think one of the reasons 1e and 2e didn't have adventure paths is simple: they were too slow.

I mean, 3e started with a very loose adventure path right out the gate, with the adventures starting with the Sunless Citadel and ending with Bastion of Broken Souls. That's a series of eight adventures of 32 pages each (the two last were 48 pages, so a total of 288 pages) bringing characters from level 1 all the way to level 18+, though the connections between adventures are tenuous.

On the other hand, my favorite adventure ever was Dragon's Crown for Dark Sun, also 288 pages long, intended for 10th to 13th level characters. Note: that's not "start at 10th and go to 13th level over the adventure." No, you'd start the adventure somewhere in between those two levels. At the end, you might have gained a level or two. So the same amount of adventure that brings a 3e party from 1st to 18th level brings an AD&D party from 10th to 12th, or so.

So, in AD&D something big enough to last for a whole adventuring career was basically impossible to make, because of the slow leveling speed. The only thing that came close was Night Below, and that "accelerated" things by dropping tons and tons of treasure and recommending using the XP-for-treasure rule that the DMG severely admonished against using. But in 3e and Pathfinder, PCs basically expect to level up multiple times during a single 64-page adventure.

 

[Bluenose]

Correct. The first "Adventure Path" was Age of Worms, which premiered in Dungeon Magazine.

Shackled City preceded it, even if you only include D&D and something more than the short series that already existed.

Sounds like the first AP might have actually been Shadows of Yog-Sothoth.

Runequest's Borderlands also dates from 1982. Also Chaosium.