What should you be doing between turns?

[Kzach]

Since the other thread is a rules/homebrew discussion and will inevitably get thrown there, I figured I'd continue the discussion that started in that thread here.

Personally, it's a big pet peeve of mine that people don't pay attention or help out with rules or remind the DM and players of conditions or effects, etc. and prepare for their own turn between turns.

Just because the focus isn't on you and your character, doesn't mean you're not part of the game or that you can't contribute. In my opinion, you should be contributing and being helpful throughout the game, not just when your turn comes up.

People who text or play games or browse the internet whilst a game is running are being selfish. Especially given that when it comes to their turn, all of a sudden they have a billion questions, don't know their character role or powers, and haven't a clue what's going on in the game.

I generally take less than a couple of minutes to have my turn because I pay attention to what's going on, I plan ahead and talk with the other players about potential strategies I can help set up or that I need help setting up. I check rules regarding other people's actions, or actions I want to do on my turn so that nobody is waiting when it comes to my turn.

Then Joe takes twenty minutes umming and ahhing over his turn, Bob takes ten minutes, Pete takes ten and the DM another twenty for all the monsters and it's an hour between my two minute turns.

Another part of this is knowing the damn rules and character. I'm in one game where one guy asks the same questions EVERY combat. Not just every session, but in every combat within the same session. It's like, Jesus Christ dude, get some meds for your short term memory problems or something

 

[Turtlejay]

Without endorsing the vitriol, I agree with the kernel of your point.

The game will run much smoother if everyone pays attention to the game and takes their turn quickly. To be honest though, this was a problem in other editions too. The difference was, folks who were only paying attention 10% of the time were playing fighters. If they were playing a caster there were folks at the table who knew each spell by heart (and likely picked them for him).

Jay

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

It also depends on your role and what you do.

The leader, controller, and defender have to pay more attention, in general, than the strikers do.

On my avenger, I can sit off to the side and pipe up when it's my turn, listening while considering my next action. This frees up some table space, too.

Brad

 

[Alan Shutko]

If a player can keep track of what he wants to do, and resolve his turn quickly when he comes up, is it a problem that he's browsing the internet or texting?

In our 4e game, it takes about 20-25 minutes to cycle a turn. I resolve my turn in about 90 seconds, and then mostly tune out for a while while everything else cycles around. About two people before my initiative, I'll tune back in to figure out what I want to do.

We've got six players, one of whom is very tactical and will take a long time getting everything just so, and one who pays attention but never seems to know what she'll be doing before her turn. So while I might be selfish to twiddle with other things while other things happen, I don't think that it's causing the problems to the game that we're talking about.

 

[Ktulu]

Two things:

1. Pay attention. Watch what the other players are doing and start deciding what you're power/move/focus will be. There are five players and 20 monsters on the map, lets try to keep it going quickly. Yes, plans will change when Leeeeroy charges the dragon, but most of the time you should have a good first idea and a backup move, if possible.

2. Interact. If you're flanking with an ally, add to his description when he knocks the enemy back and imposes a -2. Maybe you kidney punch, or trip him up. If you provide color commentary, you'll help other players do the same.


What I DON'T want you doing:

We don't have any problems with people texting/surfing the web, as no computers are up save for one running the character builder/compendium and phones are only used if the wives call.

However, one thing that can get irritating is the "dictating of other players". When one player starts telling another what power/move they should do.. not necessarily to set them up, just because they're dictating the encounter. For the players in my group that are more quiet, this tends to push them into the background and make the louder player more the center of attention. We're all friends and no one's trying to crowd the other, but it does have to be reminded, from time to time.

 

[Janx]

When I see a question like the title of this thread, my first suspicion is that combat is taking too long in general.

I've got a blog article on how to speed it up:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/blogs/janx/300-making-combat-faster.html

It won't cure everything, but it'll reduce the problem of each player taking too long.

For the main topic, I expect players to be paying attention. I disallow tv and other distractions. With laptops/pdas having in-game uses, the line gets fuzzier. When I have players facebooking instead of paying attention, I'll deal with the player.

As a side note, I have kicked a friend from a campaign because he was trying to trade magic cards during my sessions (as in multiple offenses, and impeding game play regularly). It was disrupting my game, so since he'd obviously rather be playing a different game...

I like using a battlemat, because it gives players a visual to lock onto. The pieces get moved around, which attracts their attention. Plus, if they do drift off, they can get a sit-rep by glancing at the board, rather than asking me 50 questions on their turn.

Per the complaints in this thread, the common theme is players taking too long, which leads to boredom and not paying attention. I don't like a strict "if you say it, you do it" policy, but you do need to get your players to start making choices. If they hem, and haw, then their PC hems and haws, either put them on full defense and skip their turn, or delay their action. Allow for a little, "um, I'll uh, go here and cast magic missile!". But don't let them take more than a few minutes without actually choosing an action. The bulk of the turn should be to clarify and resolve the action, not decide what action to take.


As a game design observation, I've noticed that for simple actions, people don't like waiting for more than 4 or so actions. draw a card/play a card could be considered 1 action (yes, I know it's 2). Add more players in that scenario, and you start having boredom and inattention issues as the game play slows down. Add in more actions that occur per player, same problem.

Thus, 1st level combat in D&D with 4 PCs goes pretty quick. When folks start swinging multiple attacks at higher levels, you notice the slow-down again.

Without changing the game, you need to get people to hurry up, in order to reduce the impact of this phenomenon. Part of that is to get rid of distractions, and rush your players bit. Cut them off if they do take too long.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Perhaps your group is playing the wrong game?

No, I am being serious. I have been in groups that could stay connected and focused playing Rolemaster through 4 to 5 hour combat sets... which in RM is about 10 rounds. I have also had groups that had issues staying up with the complexity of Paranoia combat { uh, what do I do? shoot him with my lazer rifle or shoot him with my lazer rifle?}

Another question for me to get boo-hoo'd for: Is being annoyed at this worth it? I mean if the game is otherwise fun and the rest of the group is great to hang out with... perhaps its better to lay aside your preferences for a rapid combat session and enjoy it some more.


That being said, Janx has some really good advice. Organizing your players at the table with experience players next to inexperience once, seperating players who tend to engage is side conversations, ensuring distractions are removed.. etc... All good stuff.

The best thing, IMO, is to talk to the group. I have run a group of 7 players and had to talk with them after one agonizingly slow combat. THe light-bulb came on with some of them and the following sessions were much smoother.

Personally, as a player I try to have my action set up in advance, have the dice ready to roll.. quickly describe my action, roll the dice.. and I am done. In some cases my striker's turn is already done before the guy before me is finished picking up his dice. {after all, a ranged striker with a long-bow tends to be 'I shoot X using my Y power' as an action }

 

[darjr]

When my groups are big I've taken to saying 'your up' and then adding 'your next'. I've also got a player that had issues paying attention, he now does initiative and conditions. It was his idea and now he's johnny on the spot. He even made a fancy magnetic wet erase board for it and all.

 

[Tale]

Hitting on the DM's wife.
Raiding his fridge.