What to do with Spontaneous Casters

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm designing a campaign in which surface civilization has largely collapsed, and the nature of the collapse will result in the destruction of most written materials (along with a lot of other things).

Because of this, spellcasters who must research spells- Wizards & Wu Jen- will be forced to work from first principles, and design their own spells. I have 2 methods I'm considering (not neccessarily exclusive): spell design from the ground up similar to True Sorcery or working with downscaled Spellseeds, or having PCs do a Spellcraft check vs a DC to learn a spell- reflecting researching through fragments of magical writings to piece together lost spells.

However, spontaneous casters don't research their spells. The absence of most of these tomes and scrolls won't affect them- they just know their spells.

How can I restore the balance and still remain true to the campaign setting?

 

[Nifft]

Just don't. Wizards know what they're getting into; let them suffer if they wanna suffer. They should still get 2 free spells each level, which will take care of the basics anyway.

Spontaneous casters will suffer a bit, too, because they will be unable to buy wands & scrolls to compensate for their limited spell lists.

But a Wizard running around, searching for spontaneous casters from whom to learn spells -- that's a whole campaign right there. Once they can bind Outsiders, spells become easier to acquire, too.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

They should still get 2 free spells each level, which will take care of the basics anyway.

Not quite- even those 2 spells they get will still have to be designed or discovered.*

I mean, they're going to be studying magic through trial and error, as well as scraps and bits of scrolls & tomes...no free rides.

*In all honesty, though, I've been toying with the idea of each Wizard starting off with a spellbook with 9 levels of spells in them (Cantrips counting as 1/3rd of a spell)- player's choice- to "sweeten the pot." My players are generally ultraconservative and may balk at the idea of having to design their own spells.

 

[Khuxan]

Why not ban spontaneous casters altogether, or force them to research spells from fragments/design them from the ground up before they learn them? Surely the problem isn't with arcane spellcasters (which learn spells whether they prepare them or cast them spontaneously) but rather with divine spellcasters (who automatically know the spells on their list).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Good questions!

Why not ban spontaneous casters altogether, or force them to research spells from fragments/design them from the ground up before they learn them?

I don't really see a real reason to ban them, especially since most of the arcane spellcasters are spontaneous casters. If anything, they should be relatively more common- they should experience no loss in numbers due to simply being unable to read magical tomes, whereas wannabe wizards have to find some tome or teacher...

Surely the problem isn't with arcane spellcasters (which learn spells whether they prepare them or cast them spontaneously) but rather with divine spellcasters (who automatically know the spells on their list).

True, but I was considering a variety of ways to handle that, including a Campaign Specific Feat like... Divine Calling: You are called to a life in contact with divinity. Must be taken at the first level of a divine spellcasting class. That particular solution would obviously also have an impact on multiclassing.

I suppose I could go in a similar direction and use the Bloodline Feats from DCv1 as a prerequisite for being a spontaneous arcane spellcaster. They are all "must be taken at 1st level" feats that add spells to a spontaneous arcane spellcaster's repetoir, based upon his heritage: Elemental, Celestial, Diabolical, etc.

 

[Nifft]

Surely the problem isn't with arcane spellcasters (which learn spells whether they prepare them or cast them spontaneously) but rather with divine spellcasters (who automatically know the spells on their list).

Yeah, after thinking about it, I was going to post the same thing.

Perhaps just use the Generic Spellcaster -- casts like a Sorcerer, but with access to all spell lists, and gets a bunch of bonus feats to customize the character concept.

Together with the PHB-II's [Polymorph] subschool (and a bunch of spells which each allow exactly one animal or monster form), you'd have a recipe to model most stuff you want, with fewer rules rather than more.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Its a thought, but dropping the wizards & their ilk in favor of all spontaneous casters doesn't really fit my vision of the campaign...

The loss of the accumulated knowledge of sages and mages past provides an impetus to the PCs- especially the spellcasters- to adventure in search of that knowledge to rebuild civilization...and to restore the institution of learned wizardry to the surface world.

For instance, while the surface civilization is wrecked, the Underdark is still relatively intact. Wizardry and its students still exist down there...and their libraries are a resource to be tapped by the surface world. Perhaps through trade, perhaps by force, perhaps by stealth & guile.

 

[dren]

Consider themed spell lists. Have sorcerers declare their ancestry (demonic, fey, elemental / genie) and then say based on that they can only chose certain types of spells or have spell lists for them. It should be pretty broad but it gives you control of what they can or can not utilize; it will be a bit more work for you but it will certainly give you control. Certain spells can be completely left off if you want.

Good luck, it sounds like an interesting idea you are juggling around.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That would dovetail nicely off of the DCv1 Bloodlines feats...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Since the question was raised, do you think that the "Divine Calling" Feat (described above) is:

1) Fair in this context?

2) Balanced in this context?

If not, what alternatives exist there?