Ranger REG
Explorer
You're not saying the third-party publisheres are at fault, are you?jmucchiello said:
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D&D 4E What will happen if 4E doesn't use the OGL?
- Thread starter Alzrius
- Start date
Perithoth
First Post
I know this whole thread is predicated on the assumption that WotC will be publishing 4e in the next 2 years and that the OGL will be discarded for this version. But I have a different take on this.
1) With the destruction of Dragon and Dungeon Magazines (DDM) WotC has removed a potent sales tool to build customer anticipation/demand for a new edition.
It is going to take awhile to build customer use and loyalty to the new Digital Initiative (DI) products which can then be leveraged into bringing new and old customers to the table.
As I see it, WotC is going to have to wed the value added services of the DI with D&D 3.5 first. Then when they launch “4e” they have a built in audience to build buzz for the new product and it can be built to make maximum use of DI products.
That way, if they release 4e without an OGL, there is not just a mechanical difference between 4e and 3e, there is also a closed system of electronic support for the new mechanics that provides value that no other company can reproduce let alone compete with.
2) While the OGL is eternal, places to advertise your gaming wares is getting rarer and rarer. With the demise of DDM it will be difficult to get your product out to the general gaming public. I would be interested to see if the DI has advertising. It has been my impression that print advertising has more pull that online but then I am not a marketing person. In all, the loss of DDM advertising is a major problem for the long term survivability of mid-tier 3rd party companies.
The loss of DDM is further compounded by the elimination of non-WotC gaming at D&D XP (formerly Winter Fantasy). WotC is going to build this convention as the big D&D showcase where they have complete control.
NOTE: I don’t expect to hear about 4e at GenCon btw, I expect it will be at D&D XP.
It is very expensive to go to GenCon and Origins as a vendor and only those with pockets deep enough to support a trip there (or the crazy belief that one’s product will sell it self and pay for the trip) are going to make it to these conventions.
3) Of course, my points are predicated on the idea that WotC is going to take a measured approach to bringing folks to a new version of the game.
It is quite possible that WotC will ignore the lessons of 3e mania and just release it expecting everyone will understand that just because its WotC D&D that it will be good.
My two coppers,
Bryan Blumklotz
AKA Saracenus
1) With the destruction of Dragon and Dungeon Magazines (DDM) WotC has removed a potent sales tool to build customer anticipation/demand for a new edition.
It is going to take awhile to build customer use and loyalty to the new Digital Initiative (DI) products which can then be leveraged into bringing new and old customers to the table.
As I see it, WotC is going to have to wed the value added services of the DI with D&D 3.5 first. Then when they launch “4e” they have a built in audience to build buzz for the new product and it can be built to make maximum use of DI products.
That way, if they release 4e without an OGL, there is not just a mechanical difference between 4e and 3e, there is also a closed system of electronic support for the new mechanics that provides value that no other company can reproduce let alone compete with.
2) While the OGL is eternal, places to advertise your gaming wares is getting rarer and rarer. With the demise of DDM it will be difficult to get your product out to the general gaming public. I would be interested to see if the DI has advertising. It has been my impression that print advertising has more pull that online but then I am not a marketing person. In all, the loss of DDM advertising is a major problem for the long term survivability of mid-tier 3rd party companies.
The loss of DDM is further compounded by the elimination of non-WotC gaming at D&D XP (formerly Winter Fantasy). WotC is going to build this convention as the big D&D showcase where they have complete control.
NOTE: I don’t expect to hear about 4e at GenCon btw, I expect it will be at D&D XP.
It is very expensive to go to GenCon and Origins as a vendor and only those with pockets deep enough to support a trip there (or the crazy belief that one’s product will sell it self and pay for the trip) are going to make it to these conventions.
3) Of course, my points are predicated on the idea that WotC is going to take a measured approach to bringing folks to a new version of the game.
It is quite possible that WotC will ignore the lessons of 3e mania and just release it expecting everyone will understand that just because its WotC D&D that it will be good.
My two coppers,
Bryan Blumklotz
AKA Saracenus
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Ranger REG
Explorer
Well, if WotC is so in favor of "Digital Initiative," why won't they make D&D all digital?
Because they're chicken and they know that print is better than PDF.
Because they're chicken and they know that print is better than PDF.
Nellisir
Hero
jmucchiello said:
Sorry. I've been craving thunder recently.
Note to Joe: Also, still haven't forgotten "the project". Working on final project for class for the next week, then will hopefully finish "the project" while attending a wedding in Buffalo (not actually -at- the wedding, of course...at least, probably not...though the bride would understand; she was in my college D&D group....)
Last edited:
EvilPheemy
First Post
How much different from 3.x ed can 4e really be? I just don't see any revision being so radical as to force products designed on the SRD unplayable. 4th ed will most likely be successful and the 3.x supplements already in the market will still be useful (and most of those supplements will eventually be replaced by 4e product). As we've seen with the 3.0 -> 3.5 revision, that sort of replacement takes months.
I'd say that the biggest impact a 4e future line would make would be the development and release of yet another "official" WotC setting to showcase the new edition.
So far as the OGL goes, it will stay around. Even if no one is publishing from it (though that would be unlikely, I'm pretty sure that the True20 system isn't going anywhere anytime soon).
Even the material published for 1st ed AD&D can still be used for 3.x. I'd also bet real spendable Yankee dollars that those gamers who still play 1e, 2e, Basic, and all of the other pre WotC variant Dungeons and Dragons players know how to adapt those bits and pieces of new product which they like to their preferred game system.
Of course, none of this will prevent a whole new rousing chorus of "edition wars". I'm getting my "WotC is the Debil!" protest sign out of storage this weekend in order to fix it up and be ready for the new release!
I'd say that the biggest impact a 4e future line would make would be the development and release of yet another "official" WotC setting to showcase the new edition.
So far as the OGL goes, it will stay around. Even if no one is publishing from it (though that would be unlikely, I'm pretty sure that the True20 system isn't going anywhere anytime soon).
Even the material published for 1st ed AD&D can still be used for 3.x. I'd also bet real spendable Yankee dollars that those gamers who still play 1e, 2e, Basic, and all of the other pre WotC variant Dungeons and Dragons players know how to adapt those bits and pieces of new product which they like to their preferred game system.
Of course, none of this will prevent a whole new rousing chorus of "edition wars". I'm getting my "WotC is the Debil!" protest sign out of storage this weekend in order to fix it up and be ready for the new release!
Ranger REG
Explorer
UA offer a bunch of variant rules, be it then at 1e and currently in 3e.Nellisir said:
Ranger REG said:
The 1st edition UA was not presented as a book of variants, it was just presented.
jmucchiello
Hero
Among others. By destroyed, I meant having meaningful value on store shelves. When you see a d20 logo, what does it mean? Well it means the game uses d20s to determine success by comparison against a difficulty class. Beyond that you can't be too sure. I might be compatible with D&D or d20 modern but even that isn't certain.Ranger REG said:
More importantly, it was supposed to be used to get product into the channel. It was the "hey, this book is useful to you because...." that the D&D logo is for WotC. Unfortunately, large numbers of products hit the channel hard and fast. FLGS's over bought stuff of questionable quality. Now having a d20 logo on a book means nothing to the buyers. Unless you have a good track record, you aren't getting bought.
But because the d20 logo flopped, I would be surprised if a theoretical 4e without OGL support used an exclusive d20 logo for 3rd party products. 3rd party pubs would be foolish to think the little d20 would mean anything. WotC would have to pony up something that says D&D more specifically than the d20 logo ever did. At least they would if I were negotiating. Maybe there are companies that wouldn't be as nervous as I would be about trusting that buyers would buy my 4e compatible stuff without D&D emblazened on it in some manner. Time will tell. I suppose it also depends on the size and quantity of hoops involved.
