D&D 4E What will the paladin represent in 4e?

[Merlin the Tuna]

I think the main Paladin should be LG. WIth other alignments having other names.

So we can get palette-swap versions eating up space in supplements? No, thank you.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Devoted to a god that represents a cause which fits into a specific alignment.

Agreed!

I see Paladins as the 'fist' of a divine entity while the clerics are the 'voice'. While a cleric gets spell casting, the Paladin gets a mix of martial and supernatural abilities.

Of course, I also think the Paladin should be either a PrC that starts no earlier than 5th level, or a talent tree available to any character. With the variations in dieties should come a variation in thier mortal servants.

 

[Klaus]

Devoted to a god that represents a cause which fits into a specific alignment.

IMHO, the Paladin follows a god because of his Code. A Cleric follows a code because of his god.

To the Paladin, the Code is paramount, and its the adherence to that higher state of being that makes the Paladin special. That's why I'm not too keen on different-alignment Paladins. A base-class Blackguard who gains power from bargains with archfiends is okay. A CE Paladin, not so much.

 

[Sundragon2012]

IMHO, the Paladin follows a god because of his Code. A Cleric follows a code because of his god.

To the Paladin, the Code is paramount, and its the adherence to that higher state of being that makes the Paladin special. That's why I'm not too keen on different-alignment Paladins. A base-class Blackguard who gains power from bargains with archfiends is okay. A CE Paladin, not so much.

However, the code is often the tenants of the faith to which the paladin belongs. Warning Religious Example:

Spoiler

A Christian paladin serves Christ first and that Christ happens to be (for the sake of argument) Lawful Good and espouse the 10 Commandments and the Beatitudes is just part of the package. IMO its the relationship with Christ that matters. It is the love of Christ that motivates the Paladin to do as Christ would wish.

I think that it is kind of sterile to think that a Paladin of Pelor, Paladine, Tyr, etc. would be mere servants of a cause without this personal feeling of inspiration or connection to the divine as prime motivator for their devotion to their cause. None of the archetypal examples in history such as Joan of Arc, Sir Galahad, King Arthur, etc. were about their code before their god. I don't believe that a paladin is anything more or less than a holy warrior, a warrior of faith, and an exemplar of his/her deity's code for the love of the god and not for the love of the code.

I have doubts myself about other alignment paladins, however, if they are seen as holy warriors for their gods then it would make perfect sense. However, I realy only see the knightly paladin as a lawful good being. Other paladins IMO will need another archetype to be based upon.



Sundragon

 

[Klaus]

However, the code is often the tenants of the faith to which the paladin belongs. Warning Religious Example:

Spoiler

A Christian paladin serves Christ first and that Christ happens to be (for the sake of argument) Lawful Good and espouse the 10 Commandments and the Beatitudes is just part of the package. IMO its the relationship with Christ that matters. It is the love of Christ that motivates the Paladin to do as Christ would wish.

I think that it is kind of sterile to think that a Paladin of Pelor, Paladine, Tyr, etc. would be mere servants of a cause without this personal feeling of inspiration or connection to the divine as prime motivator for their devotion to their cause. None of the archetypal examples in history such as Joan of Arc, Sir Galahad, King Arthur, etc. were about their code before their god. I don't believe that a paladin is anything more or less than a holy warrior, a warrior of faith, and an exemplar of his/her deity's code for the love of the god and not for the love of the code.

I have doubts myself about other alignment paladins, however, if they are seen as holy warriors for their gods then it would make perfect sense. However, I realy only see the knightly paladin as a lawful good being. Other paladins IMO will need another archetype to be based upon.



Sundragon

Which makes the Paladin follow the god because the god spouses such a code. A Paladin may renounce his faith and keep his code, and he's still a Paladin. If a Paladin renounces his code but keeps his faith, he's no longer a Paladin.

Take a look at Dragonheart's Old Code:
"A knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath undoes the wicked."

That's a perfect Paladin Code, if I ever saw one.

I think this boils down to a need to separate the Paladin and the Cleric. The standard D&D cleric is so martial, they're already the holy warriors. A Paladin, OTOH, is the lowest rung of exlated characters. He's a warrior, and he's holy, but because he works everyday to hold himself up to an exceedingly hard standard.

 

[ruemere]

Since we can only speculate, this is my take on how should paladins work in 4e.

Class Concept
Paladins strongwilled and charismatic individuals serving a specific cause. Their dedication allows them to transcend mortal limitations thus resulting in manifestation of supernatural powers.

The code should be defined by player formulating set of three allegiances (think d20 Modern) - examples of codes follow (in descending order of importance):
- Laws of Kingdom, Will of Just Ruler, Welfare of King's Subjects
- Holy Scriptures, Will of Holy Order Superiors, Protection of Holy Land
- Freedom for the Oppressed, Organization of Resistance Movement, Retribution for Wrongs

The means used to further the code should be defined by character's alignment. Two paladins serving the same cause may follow entirely different routes due to differing alignments.

Paladin powers should be powerful and strong, however, they should recharge only after fulfilling a part of their code (basically, doing something for their allegiance).

Paladins vs Fighters
Paladins should not be slightly weaker but better looking version of a Fighter. If anything, in martial area, they should be able to exceed Fighters, albeit only if using the powers.

To this end, Paladins could (remember, all these powers are recharged only through serving their cause):
- employ auras enhancing significantly their combat prowess (diminished effect of auras would be affecting their allies),
- overcome wounds, infections, poisons,
- perform amazing feats of leadership, strength and resistance,

As non-combat abilities, Paladins should be able to excel in:
- organizing things,
- diplomacy and oratory skills,
- education (cause related knowledges).

Paladins vs Clerics
Paladin powers should have limited duration, be available at moment's notice and, while numerous, simple and definite. They should target Paladin first, his allies second (diminished effect) and Paladin's opposition (effect not diminished, but powers damaging opponents should be limited to damaging opponents).

Cleric abilities should take much longer to perform, last longer and allow for more complex effects.

Using 3E analogy, Paladin's Bear Strength should be used as a free action with duration of one encounter and two-three uses before recharging. Cleric's Bear Strength should take minutes to cast, affect several targets OR provide doubled effect to single individual OR last several hours.

In skills area, both classes should have access to superior education, however, for Paladins this education should come at the cost of powers or combat prowess.

Paladin sample character concepts
Freedom fighter
Conquistador
Crusader
Sheriff
Lonestar
War commander


Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Quartz]

Ditch the current paladin and merge it with the Divine Crusader.

 

[vagabundo]

The core ruleset shouldnt have alignment restrictions to classes, because of the variance in what people want from this class. Settings, however, are a different matter and should restrict classes to fit the setting.

The core setting should be uber flexible with a smattering of fluff.

 

[Amadan]

This, in turn, means that the divide between Clerics and Paladins is easily explained within every church: Clerics are the proselytizers who go out and convert the heathens and perform miracles to show others the benefits of faith, while Paladins are the true holy warriors of the church who go out and kick whatever asses need kickin'. Every religion (except, perhaps, religions of Peace) would therefore have at least a few Paladins. Some religions of War would probably have mostly Paladins and very few Clerics, in fact.

As for the other two roles matching to Divine, given that Rogue is the Martial Striker, and Wizard the Arcane Controller, I think Ranger will be pegged as the Divine Striker and Druids (when they get released officially) will be Divine Controllers.

This is my bet as well.
And if you think of Paladins in terms of "Zealot" it's easier to conceive of paladins of every alignment -- every god / cause is going to have those who take their ideas to the extreme.

 

[DarkKestral]

And if Protection from Alignment-type spells, the Alignment Word line, and Detect Alignment don't exist, then suddenly, it's very hard to distinguish between an Evil paladin of a justice-themed god who 'punishes the wicked', incidentally going through town killing all of the town's leaders and a Good one. So they're both going to be called insane zealots. Some are insane zealots for Good, some are insane zealots for Evil. Them's the breaks.